[standards-jig] Re: [Foundation] Motion for Last Call - Chat State Notifications (JEP-0085)

Sebastiaan Deckers cbas at rhymbox.com
Thu Dec 4 15:57:30 UTC 2003

Hello all,

I recently implemented both jabber:x:event and chatstates while working 
on the conversation dialog of my client.
Here is a list with pros and cons of each protocol, as seen by your 
humble servant.

+ Straightforward design
+ Ridiculously easy to implement (~60 minutes in my case)
+ Introduces new conversation modes besides composing: active, inactive, 
+/- Works complementary to jabber:x:events offline/displayed/delivered
- Can be tricky to coexist with jabber:x:events for composing.  The JEP 
could use some implementation notes on how to do this properly.
- Why does this use <message/> instead of <presence/> or even <iq/>?
(Note: I did not look at the thread handling as my client does not use 
threads in its display.)

+ De facto standard
+ Widely supported (I implemented it how many years ago??)
- Composing does not "belong" in the same namespace as delivered and 
- Yucky yucky usage of id attribute which has lead to incompatible 
- Limited to composing as the only conversation mode

Overall I would say that Chatstates is a clear improvement.  However 
jabber:x:events is still required to handle displayed and delivered 
events as Chatstates has no provisions for those (but should not have 
those anyway).

I hope this may help the decision of the Membership and Council.


Julian Missig wrote:

> Ok, I understand that I suck at writing up JEPs when I should and that 
> I said I would a long time ago, but I still feel that the Chat State 
> JEP is more complicated than we really need... I'm also rather 
> disappointed that we have a standard which almost everyone is using 
> (jabber:x:event) that we're deprecating just as people are finishing 
> up implementing it. I do think that we could get the things we need by 
> modifying jabber:x:event rather than creating a whole new standard and 
> abandoning jabber:x:event.
> Julian
> On 3 Dec, 2003, at 12:20, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:16:15PM +1100, Robert Norris wrote:
>>> I move that a Last Call be issued for JEP-0085, Chat State
>>> Notifications. Seconds?
>> Just a note (I'm one of the JEP authors, so I won't second it):
>> As discussed in yesterday's Council meeting, several Council members
>> have mixed feelings about moving forward with this JEP and would like to
>> receive feedback from client developers about this, since it is intended
>> to replace jabber:x:event (JEP-0022). However, the Council figured that
>> the only way to close the circle here would be to hold a Last Call on
>> JEP-0085 so that we can have a definitive discussion about this on the
>> Standards-JIG list.
>> So if you want to have the discussion and reach consensus on whether we
>> will move forward to chat state notifications (JEP-0085) or use the
>> message events protocol (JEP-0022) forever, please second the motion.
>> Let's get this figured out and move on.
>> Peter

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