[standards-jig] JEP-0067

Peter Ronez prnz404 at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 25 16:44:36 UTC 2003

--- "Ulrich B. Staudinger" <chicago5 at gmx.de> wrote:
> Peter,
> Peter Ronez wrote:
> >I don't intend to be rude, but I think this JEP has no merit as a Jabber.org
> >JEP. Mind you, I think it's a good idea, but the standardization for the
> >transmission of equities data (or just common stock in this case) over XMPP
> is
> >beyond the scope of what's currently defined. 
> >
> >As someone who has worked in a financial firm, writing financial software, I
> >can assure you that this is not nearly sufficient for the demands of those
> >companies or even day traders. For example, the current JEP has no market
> depth
> >information on a given equities product nor does it even specify the
> exchange
> >that the product is traded on (you need that information to trade). Also,
> the
> >JEP is confined to common stock even though equities options, futures and
> >convertables are other essential equity financial products. 
> >
> Do you mind telling, what is sufficient? Options, futures and common 
> stock can all be adressed through a specific adress. thanks for pointing 
> to this, i will add an element <type> to the protocol, a client don't 
> know if data from a source ISIN DE0005985931 is an option, future or 
> common stock.

What about the exchange that the product is being traded on?

> What do you mean with market depth - money flow index? If you speak of 
> indicators like momentum, RSI or MFI i have to admit, this has to be 
> implemented on client side based on historical data. The protocol is 
> very generic.

The "current price" in the market is actually not the current price but rather
the last price that a bid/sell matched and the orders were executed. Now on
both the bid and sell side there are prices(offers) that haven't matched up.
For example, I'm selling IBM stock at $40 per share and you have an order for
buying at $38 per share. The market depth display the buy/sell orders closest
to the last execution (current) price. It looks something like this:

40.00 (5 shares)
39.90 (4 shares)
39.20 (20 shares)
39.00 <-- Last price
38.90 (5 shares)
38.80 (8 shares)
38.00 (1 share)

> >Now a bit of preemption: You could argue that this the information conveyed
> by
> >this JEP is not tailored for financial institutions, but rather for people
> who
> >have an occasional interest in the markets. If that's the case, then those
> >people probably don't need the information in near real-time and probably be
> >better served going to Yahoo! for all the graphical, historical data. 
> >
> >In addition to the shortcomings of the JEP, XMPP is great but it doesn't
> have
> >all the kinds of message delivery reliability / caching that Reuter's Tibco
> RV
> >product line offers. If this is an attempt to make XMPP as an alternative RV
> >then you've got your work cut out.  
> >
> Caching is adressed in the jep through the history query. A user queries 
> the service to retrieve o/h/l/c+vol data for a specified range in 
> specified intervals. What do you need more?
> Reuters Tibco is a professional solution with professional service and a 
> fill -time professional support team. Ideas like 'call a support 
> person'-keys on a keyboard are not adressable with a protocol. Marketing 
> ideas, like realtime business are not adressed through a jep. Soft 
> solutions as  reuters http://about.reuters.com/productinfo/messaging/ 
> aim to a microsoft target group.

That's not the argument. Forget their instant messaging solution and their
support -- let's talk about RV. RV uses multicast, XMPP does not. That's it,
end of story. Without multicast, the XMPP solution won't nearly scale as well. 

This doesn't mean that XMPP isn't well suited for financial companies -- it is!
However, multicasting large amounts of data is not one of those things.

> Peter, what key features do you miss? the only thing i can think of are 
> order informations/order placements and order removals, which i will add 
> propably in the next version.

Wow! Now you've unleashed a whole new can of worms! Order execution is ten fold
more involved in comparison to publishing of market information. I strongly
advise you not to waste your time.

Anyway, from what I can tell from your answers, you obviously have some grand
ambitions for your client in the financial world, and that's fine. But,
irregardless of the JEP's short comings, XMPP is not suited for broadcasting
financial data.

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