[standards-jig] chat log standard?

Ben Schumacher ben at blahr.com
Tue Sep 30 15:44:29 UTC 2003


I've decided that since nobody has stepped up and made the (logical)
negative points related to this discussion, which I can only imagine is
because they're hoping it'll silently go away, but I've decided that its
necessary for somebody to reply...

This is a silly idea. First of all, this is a client implementation issue.
The JSF is not in the business of telling users how to write their
clients, they're in the business of writing protocol that clients use.
This is a distinct difference. Regardless, there is really little point to
cross chat logs. If the developers of a couple client would like to hook
up, and work together, between themselves, to make a common log format
between their clients, then more power to 'em, but this isn't the place to
discuss that.

And what value does this actually add to a client? New clients are written
because a developer seeks to fill a hole left by the current clients
available, not because (at least, I hope *not*) they can. If they're doin'
it just because they can, they're really doing little to help the
community. There are *tons* of clients out there right now that may carry
bugs, or are lacking some other funtionality, and instead of helping to
fix those, people are starting over from scratch? This doesn't make any
sense.

If there's ever a time when I'm switching clients enough that this idea
even makes the slightest bit of sense, its because the client(s) I use is
not up to snuff. I need my chat logs for a day, or week at most. Usually I
refer to them because I need that URL that PGM sent to me ten minutes ago,
an hour ago, or yesterday... I never go back and look at conversations I
have a year ago... in fact, I clear out my logs about once a month, and
I've never looked back.

*IF* somebody really feels that a conversion is so important that they
want to save it for enternity, then they should probably come up with a
better storage mechanism that your average hard drive, cause that
particular storage mechanism isn't that reliable in the long run.

Sorry... long rant, but I just think this idea is pointless, outside the
scope of the JSF, and really just a distraction from more important
things. If a some client developers wish to get together and choose a
common format, then mroe power to 'em, but I find it unlikely that this
idea will garner much support from the client folks. I just don't see what
the impetus for doing so is... if people are really looking for a exit
strategy (chat logs intact) from my client, then it means I've failed as a
developer, because I haven't provided my users with the product they want.

Cheers,

bs.

Justin Karneges said:
> I like this idea.  Email clients tend to store data in standard formats
> (Maildir, mbox), so I'm sure it would be possible to do it with IM also.
>
> I'd suggest using some XML-based format, and then clients can store
> additional
> items and metadata through extension namespaces (if needed).  This way the
> basic stuff would be compatible.  There should also be a smart way to
> allow
> for log rotation and/or splitting of files, so that these XML files don't
> grow too massive (consider I have two years worth of IM logs here...).
>
> -Justin
>
> On Thursday 25 September 2003 10:02 am, miruku at bonbon.net wrote:
>> there's a jep for icon styles ( http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0038.html
>> );
>> what about creating a standard for how chat [and groupchat] logs are
>> stored?
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