[2] [standards-jig] chat log standard?

milk miruku at bonbon.net
Tue Sep 30 16:35:01 UTC 2003

"Ben Schumacher" <ben at blahr.com> wrote on 30/09/2003 16:44:29:

>This is a silly idea. First of all, this is a client implementation 
>issue. The JSF is not in the business of telling users how to write 
>their clients, they're in the business of writing protocol that 
>clients use. 

as i mentioned in my original post; jep-0038 defines how clients should 
handle icon style files (.jisp).

it states "Because icons in Jabber should be easy to use, extensible, 
and customizable, they will be created using style definition files 
which can be exchanged between users and supporting clients." and also 
mentions "Icon styles may be traded and shared among users of all 
supporting clients like skins or themes, similar to WinAmp, XMMS, 
GNOME, and other customizable applications".

>And what value does this actually add to a client? New clients are 
>written because a developer seeks to fill a hole left by the current 
>clients available, not because (at least, I hope *not*) they can. If 
>they're doin' it just because they can, they're really doing little to 
>help the community. There are *tons* of clients out there right now 
>that may carry bugs, or are lacking some other funtionality, and 
>instead of helping to fix those, people are starting over from scratch?
> This doesn't make any sense.

i'd argue that [general usage] client authors make decide to create a jabber client, not because there's a gap in the market because existing clients don't perform a certain function, but more because of the 
style [gui] of existing clients. psi, exodus, jajc, rival, tskabber, etc, etc are all general usage jabber clients that include (more or less) the same features, but they all do it in slightly (or more than slightly in 
some cases) different styles.

but creating and agreeing on a logging format has nothig to do with creating a new client (unless i'm missing what you are getting at here).

>If there's ever a time when I'm switching clients enough that this idea
>even makes the slightest bit of sense, its because the client(s) I use 
>is not up to snuff.

one of my original examples was using a different client at home and work. jabber has circa 10 million users today because of its implementation in corporate environments; even most clients have 'work' and 
'home' as default resource names to choose from. i'm definite that there are more than a few people out there who would like to be able to take their work home, and the point of instant messaging in 
enterprise being that it's a tool that a lot of communicating is done through, i'm sure that a lot of work is tied up in many people's work chat logs. someone might be forced through company policy to use a 
standardised, branded client at work, but they might choose to use, say, wxskabber (some other hightly skinnable client) at home, but if their different clients can't read the same logs they're a bit scupperd

>I need my chat logs for a day, or week at most. 
>Usually I refer to them because I need that URL that PGM sent to me 
>ten minutes ago, an hour ago, or yesterday... I never go back and look 
>at conversations I have a year ago... in fact, I clear out my logs 
>about once a month, and I've never looked back.

as someone mentioned (either on here or in jdev at conference.jabber.org), some people have im logs from 2 or more years ago. personally, i have irc chat logs from 5 years ago (albeit at my family home atm). 
from a personal side; some people like to keep logs for prosperity, to read back and see what they were doing a while back. from a buisness side; you definitly want to keep logs incase of patent/copyright 
infringement or one of several similar possible matters.

>*IF* somebody really feels that a conversion is so important that they
>want to save it for enternity, then they should probably come up with a
>better storage mechanism that your average hard drive, cause that
>particular storage mechanism isn't that reliable in the long run.

/where/ the logs are stored is a different matter altogether. if people like to keep things, they make backups, but that brings up another matter; what happens in 10 years time? you see all the articles on 
slashdot that read along the lines of "i was looking for a machine to read this really obscure format of media, and i had to travel accross the country to a computing museum to access it"

jid: milk at njs.netlab.cz
lj: user="mirukux"

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