[Standards-JIG] Re: Re: [Members] Re: MOTION: JEP-0106 (JIDEscaping)

Richard Dobson richard at dobson-i.net
Thu Apr 1 08:53:17 UTC 2004

> Why can't MSN transport's JID just be managed as other transport, by
> having a client side convertion from a JID to a nick presentation.

Because nickname information is not carried within the JID, so the MSN
transport has no way at the moment of passing its contact's nickname to the

> That's what most client do with jabber's JID, with transport JID... it
> associates a nick with that JID. (using rosters).

Huh? But the roster's nicknames are set by the user via their jabber client,
this means it could be very different from what the real nickname on the MSN
system really is.

> I just don't see any reason why MSN should behave differently. Why would
> you want to present it differently to the use ?

I think you are confused as to what we are trying to do here, in the
properties of a contact in the users roster it will display something along
the lines of user%hotmail.com at msn.domain.com as the contact's ID, now
JEP-0106 wants to use a character escaping mechanism of the form of
user#40hotmail.com at msn.domain.com which is against already long established
standards of using the following user%40hotmail.com at msn.domain.com and I
think we should follow the industry standards rather than create a
"quick-fix" solution because of the % character already being unofficially
used by only the MSN transport AFAIK to escape @ signs in the transport
id's. Escaping allows us to have an easy and standardised way of decoding
transport id's so in clients we will be able to display in the contact
properties user at hotmail.com (probably along with an MSN messenger icon and a
helpful indicator of which transport they are using) which the user is used
to as being an MSN contact id instead of user%40hotmail.com at msn.domain.com
which novice users get confused by and do not immediately understand, now
this has nothing to do with nicknames.

Nicknames only came into this because Tijl Houtbeckers pointed out that
escaping does not solve the keeping the MSN nickname up to date problem
which is fine because escaping does not even attempt to solve it because it
is a completely different subject. I suggested that longer term as this is a
jabber wide problem we might want to develop a pubsub protocol to allow
people to subscribe to your nickname so they are receive updates to it when
you change it, for which there is no way to do currently.

> Maybe include a global (not MSN specific) way of getting a "prefered
> nick" from a user, so you can get how he likes to be called. (Usually
> that would be the user part before the @ in jabber's JID, and might be
> the msn's MAIL, if the transport wants to show it that way.)

No transport JID's do not and should not contain the user's nickname that
would completely break the way it all works, the transport JID should only
contain the encoded ID of the legacy network user, introducing a nickname
into the transport JID will mean it will keep changing when the MSN user
changes their nickname which will stop it all from working as JID's for a
particular user should not be changing otherwise you will have to keep
resubscribing to that user etc (basically it wouldnt work at all).

> In any case, when i talk to someone, i prefer to see a name/nick I
> associate with that person, rather than having a JID or a MSN mail.
> It's just more... human.

Of course but thats a problem escaping is not trying to solve, thats a
completely different topic.


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