[Standards-JIG] Proposed Changes to JEP-60 - PubSub

Richard Dobson richard at dobson-i.net
Thu Jun 3 10:33:34 UTC 2004


> actually I'm not at all concerned about the data. In order for the
> PubSub Service to work it has to implement a protocol. The
> problem is the protocol is TOO VAGUE to be correctly
> implemented in a consistent manner.

I think I can see why you are getting so confused, JEP-0060 is supposed to
be just the building block to build full featured pubsub applications, it
doesnt really seem that this JEP is really intended to be used to create a
pubsub server, as you say it leaves lots of things as optional which is fine
as it is a building block, to be useful for building a pubsub server it
might be better if we specify it in its own JEP rather than altering this
one a unnecessarly restricting future pubsub applications ontop of this,
either we need a new JEP based on JEP-0060 that locks down most of the
optionals saying all the options MUST be supported in a pubsub server or
pubsub server implementation notes need to be added to a similar effect
without altering the rest of the JEP.

> please  re-read the specification again. paying particular attention
> to things like NodeID and ItemID naming and conflict resolution
> and the lack of a complete subscription/notification behavior definition.
> All the comments I've made up till now are concern about the creation,
> deletion, naming, and modification of Nodes and Items. I'm not terribly
> concerned about what the data is. if the creation, deletion, naming,
> and modification of Nodes and Items is not sufficiently defined
> (and its not in the spec), then the data is irrelevant because you will
not
> be able to access it. Where in any of the emails have I mentioned
> "application specific" level protocols, I haven't. If the core protocol
isn't
> sufficiently robust in its definition, you can't build higher level
protocols.
> I'm ONLY concerned about cleaning up the ambiguities and finishing
> definitions in the core protocol.

Well you did say the following and I quote:

> We are not limiting the functionality of the base protocol. We are
> significantly enhancing it by specifying how it behaves in a predictable,
> well understood manner. So that clients can implement User Moods,
> Headline news, avatars, etc.... WITHOUT having to have a specific
> custom PubSub implementation on EVERY server you have an account on.

This seems to suggest that you think that a pubsub server based on JEP-0060
needs to understand the higher level protocols to work, when it clearly
doesnt if you really are understanding what parts of this relate to
implementing a pubsub server.

Also in what way does this protocol stop you from being able to create
higher level protocols based on it? I cant see any real reasons, the only
real reasons you have presented all have to do with implementing a pubsub
server, not higher level protocols, infact others dont seem to have had any
problems creating protocols that work based on JEP-0060 (User moods for
example), so your argument that you cant build protocols does not seem valid
at all as there is lots of evidence to the contrary.

Richard




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