[Standards-JIG] NEW: Message Archiving

David Yitzchak Cohen lists+jabber_standards at bigfatdave.com
Thu Jun 10 02:18:36 UTC 2004

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 08:40:47PM EDT, Justin Karneges wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 June 2004 4:43 pm, David Yitzchak Cohen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 05:37:50AM EDT, Justin Karneges wrote:

> > > I'll throw a wrench into this mess by suggesting that we might want to be
> > > able to log non-message items in a collection, such as presence changes.
> >
> > In that case, perhaps the JEP's name should be changed to reflect that
> > new goal. . .
> >
> > IMHO, that's a very neat idea, being able to log presences and iqs
> > (and roster entries too, while we're at it - imagine a conversation
> > with a guy who doesn't even exist anymore).
> The way I see it, presence events would only be interesting if they pertain to 
> a particular chat.  So if I chat with you, and you change your status a few 
> times while the collection of our chat is "open", then those changes would be 
> logged.  But if I never talk to anyone that day, then all the presence 
> activity wouldn't be logged at all, at least not to a "message archive" 
> collection.

Okay, that's fair enough.  I now see where you're coming from :-)

> Presence changes are notably interesting in groupchat, else you don't know 
> when someone has entered or left the room.

Yeah, I guess that can be a useful little bit of info. . .

> I don't think iq should be logged in a collection like this.

It's easy to argue that iq shouldn't be logged in <fill in the gap with
whatever you want>, since it's easy to argue from the XMPP specs that
iq shouldn't really be logged at all.  However, if you're going to log
every time a guy changes presence in the middle of a chat, you might as
well also log iqs that happen during that conversation (since remember,
they won't just be silly version requests or basic discos, since those
are all done at logon by most clients - in other words, any iq sent
during a chat will most likely be directly relevant to that conversation).

> If we do want to 
> log other events, for example file transfers, then I think we should have 
> specific elements for these situations.

Just like you log message elements almost verbatim, you can log presence,
iq, or virtually any other element almost verbatim.

 - Dave

Uncle Cosmo, why do they call this a word processor?
It's simple, Skyler.  You've seen what food processors do to food, right?

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