[Standards-JIG] Reliable message delivery (the tcp problem)

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at jabber.org
Mon Apr 24 17:42:06 UTC 2006

Hash: SHA1

Pavel ?imerda wrote:

> I am still thinking about message delivery problems. Message receipts
> (jep-0184) is imho not a solution (it has many issues like retrying,
> privacy and more).

Why not? Isn't any proposal to introduce "reliability" for each
connection going to have "issues"? What exactly does JEP-0184 not solve?

> I think that individual connections should be made reliable (in some way).
> For mi it meants that all the time, there is just one entity responsible
> for the message.

For you, yes. But "reliability" (guaranteed delivery) is not a
requirement for all uses of XMPP. In particular, most IM users don't
care about 100% reliability.

> Scenarios:

Thanks, those are helpful.

> Solutions on tcp level seem to be problematic. I saw some suggestions at
> http://mailman.jabber.org/pipermail/standards-jig/2003-December/004570.html.
> Solutions on ip level (icmp packets) are both late and unreliable.
> Is there a reasonable way to solve this? It would make Jabber/XMPP a
> reliable protocol (people have to use reliable and compliant software, of
> course). I read some suggestions at
> http://mailman.jabber.org/pipermail/standards-jig/2005-August/008260.html.

Way back at the Yokohama BOF (before the XMPP WG was accepted by the
IETF), so-called "guaranteed delivery" was decided to be out of scope
for XMPP, a decision that was further confirmed by WG consensus at IETF
55 in November 2002 (IIRC).

It seems to me that JEP-0184 solves your three bad scenarios. My sense
is that you don't like it because it is not "general" -- that is, it
needs to be supported on each client and is not enforced by the servers.
Is that accurate?


- --
Peter Saint-Andre
Jabber Software Foundation

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