[Standards-JIG] Jingle vs. Zoep

dirk.griffioen@voipster.com dgriffioen at voipster.com
Thu Feb 9 16:41:17 UTC 2006


Akito Nozaki wrote:

>I don't think comparing Jingle with SIP is a very fair comparison. Sip
>has been out longer, and it has been implemented by many. Lot of the
>issues people have has been solved or on the way to being solved.
>
>Sip has gone through the test stage, and has been re-implemented (Ver
>2.0). In comparison this would be...
>Sip 1.0 = Jabber XML = test
>Sip 2.0 = XMPP RFC = implementation.
>
>I agree with lot of what Dirk is saying about SIP. Sip has been proven
>to work in most voip/telecom situation.
>
>What I do not agree with Zoep is that it has all the complex component
>of SIP. Jabber already offers reliable connection, reliable p2p
>delivery, and for sure others.
>
>As a community, we need to figure out what Jingle is here to do.
>
>If the answer is replace "SIP", then I don't think Jingle is at the
>maturity level to compare with SIP. I have posted basic issues for
>Jingle that is still open and never got answered.
>
>If the purpose of Jingle is to implement simple p2p VOIP, then comparing
>Jingle to Zoep is probably not the right direction to go.
>
>This issue was brought up before, but was ignored or never clarified.
>
>Also I saw few people talking about how Jingle was easy to implement,
>but if I was to implement SIP with the same feature set as Jingle... for
>me it would be just as easy. The big question is, will Jingle be as
>simple as it is now if all the feature of SIP is packed into Jingle.
>
>Sorry for the long reply, but thanks for listening
>
>Akito
>
>
>  
>
Hi Akito,

Thanks for the comment!

Btw, one of my colleagues from Tallinn was thinking along the same lines 
as you are, I would like to quote him here:

<snip>

Dirk,

People in the jabber list asking for superiority of "SIP over XMPP" over
Jingle. Actually they already point it out but  :) . 

But my idea is that it is only way to connect Jabber and SIP today, tomorow may be Jingle
can provide much better way, but should somebody looks at Jingle
tomorow? During that period can hapends what ever: skype can open
their protocol, appears client like gimzo that working with both SIP
and XMPP, SIP will improve it own position as a standard for 3rd
generation cell phones.

Purpose of SIP over XMPP. 
Protocol provides way for establishing voice
communication between Jabber and SIP client or PSTN as easy as
establishing voice communication between Jabber client and Jabber
client. 

Using XMPP for voice communication is something new; peoples
outside of Jabber community are thinking about voice over XMPP
skeptic, they prefer SIP. And this is reasonable, Jingle proposed as
substitution to SIP in Jabber world but it too young, while SIP proved
to be protocol for voice communication. PSTN providers provide
communication using SIP, so SIP is gate from internet world to
landline and mobile networks. 

Today there is a lot of hardware devices (both client and server side) that support SIP. 
But how many hardware devices support Jingle today? Are you sure that Jingle (with such
protocol simplicity in mind like it has today) become a standard for
hardware devices tomorrow? All of above means that Jingle or any other
XMPP protocol will become a wide-spread only if it provide way for
communicating with SIP network. In Jabber community communication with
external networks are done by means of gateway, but Jingle is not
designed as a protocol that will be compatible with SIP, so that
gateway implementation will not be trivial. How much time it would
takes to connect Jingle with SIP? But SIP over XMPP already does it
easy and is available today.

SIP over XMPP can promote XMPP as a protocol for voice (and video)
communication. Later, after Jingle becomes strong and there will be
support for Jingle-SIP translation, it can force out SIP over XMPP,
but today Zoep's way is only way to interconnect Jabber and SIP
networks.

max
</snip>

The gateway remark is the most interesting, as Max implemented both the Openzoep SIP stack as wel as a Gateway to bridge incoming SIP to XMPP.

I know there have been discussion on the list about a Jingle/Sip gateway, I would like to know if there is anyone that actually has implemented one? And if so, is it possible to share some of the gained insights?

Regards,

Dirk



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