[Standards-JIG] Jingle: DTMF

Matthew O'Gorman ogorman at gmail.com
Wed Feb 15 17:54:21 UTC 2006


yes thomas rfc2833 acts much like a voice packet just it contains a digit.
It is very important what is decided, because it will decide what clients
implement, if you have mulitple methods all clients must implement multiple
methods or they will not interoperate correctly with each other, and in the
end every client will just need to support all formats, when only one was
really needed, putting more work on everyone.

On 2/15/06, Matthew O'Gorman <ogorman at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> joe, Comming from a voip world i can tell you that very few if any
> providers support that form of dtmf.  there are basically three types,
> inband, playing the dtmf in the audio stream like you would with an analog
> line, info, which goes over the sip signalling, or rfc2833 , which is a dtmf
> represented in rtp space as data.  Currently rfc2833 is king, as to do
> inband the call has to be in g711 ulaw, and very few phones support info.  I
> think it is silly to have multiple ways to do the same thing. And I have
> seen it cause incredible problems in othre protocols.  In the end the
> community has to decide should it be easier for the gateways or the end
> users, it seems to me that jabber has always focused on the end users.  In
> the end either way is fine.  however it has been explained to me that there
> were or are plans for implementing jingle sip or jingle h323 or jingle iax,
> wouldnt it be best to implement rfc2833 in jingle sip and have a gateway
> convert when needed?
>
> Mog
>
> On 2/15/06, Thomas Charron <twaffle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/14/06, Joe Beda <jbeda at google.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not a fan of this proposal but I'm okay with this as long as it
> > > isn't required.  The result would be two ways to get DTMF to a client: XMPP
> > > and embedded in RTP.  I'd prefer that we only have one way.
> >
> >
> >   If you wish the 'one way' to encode the DTMF tones inside of the RTP
> > data, then you've just killed 3/4's of the clients who'd like to support
> > jingle 'easily' using existing 3rd part RTP libraries.
> >
> >
> > > I would be strongly against *requiring* DTMF to be handled in the XMPP
> > > because:
> > > * When gatewaying to other protocols, this would require the media to
> > > be proxied/relayed in order to put the DTMF onto the signalling channel.
> > > This could raise the bandwidth cost of doing gatewaying dramatically.
> >
> >
> >   This isn't really about DTMF.  This is about *ANY* sort of suplimental
> > data being transported.  In our example, we're talking about DTMF.
> >
> >   Perhaps I want a game where I punch my buddy in the chat channel on
> > the arm with the new 'AutoPunch 2000 SE'.  I want to be able to provide
> > additional non content related signal, without requiring it to be encoded as
> > an audio 'beep' inside of the RTP stream itself.
> >
> >   Let's not forget that DTMF *WAS CREATED* to get around a total LACK of
> > any sort of supplimental signaling over phone lines.  We now have this.  Why
> > not use it?
> >
> >   Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > * Keep in mind that the latencies on the XMPP connection could be much
> > > higher than the latency on the RTP/P2P channel.  In situations where the
> > > timing of the DTMF is critical this could cause problems.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > On 2/14/06, Peter Saint-Andre < stpeter at jabber.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > I just read through the older thread on Jingle with PBX etc. My
> > > > sense
> > > > right now is that including DTMF [1] as part of the Jingle audio
> > > > media
> > > > description format (JEP-0167) would be best. So to send DTMF codes
> > > > to
> > > > the other party (which might be an Asterisk server, a voicemail box,
> > > > an
> > > > IVR system, or what have you), we'd send Jingle "info" messages with
> > > > a
> > > > special Jingle audio payload. Here's an example:
> > > >
> > > > <iq from=' juliet at capulet.com' to='voicemail.shakespeare.lit'
> > > > type='set'>
> > > >   <jingle xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/jingle '
> > > >           action='info'
> > > >           initiator='romeo at montague.net/orchard'
> > > >           sid='a73sjjvkla37jfea'>
> > > >     <dtmf xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/jingle/info/audio '
> > > >           code='1234'/>
> > > >   </jingle>
> > > > </iq>
> > > >
> > > > If a gateway needs to convert that into audio tones or whatever (e.g
> > > > .,
> > > > RFC 2833 format for RTP), it could do so, but we'd never send those
> > > > as
> > > > audio tones over XMPP.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://margo.student.utwente.nl/el/phone/dtmf.htm is a nice page
> > > >
> > > > about DTMF if you're wondering what it is. :-)
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > kB4QMSsnH624WSVydOGCPA0=
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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