[Standards-JIG] proto-JEP: Address lists

Michal vorner Vaner michal.vaner at kdemail.net
Wed Jun 7 19:16:23 UTC 2006

On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 08:03:11PM +0200, Carlo v. Loesch wrote:
> Michal vorner Vaner typeth:
> | > The top-down approach may be a little SPIM-prone, as the receivers
> | > aren't given many ways to protect themselves.
> | 
> | Why? Is it in any way different from using just the multicast component?
> | Or in receiving it directly?
> | 
> | Actually, there is protection, privacy lists.
> Yes yes the thought wasn't specific to this JEP, it just occured to
> me, that generally SPIM may be harder to handle in a top-down approach
> than in a bottom-up approach.
> Precisely in a bottom-up approach, recipients can unsubscribe from a
> SPIM transmission, eventually leading to whole servers unsubscribing it,
> so the SPIM no longer gets anywhere. Or if the spimming server insists
> on sending something on a context that no longer has people on it, the
> receiving server easily figures out this guy is misbehaving and blacklists
> him.

Well, he can as well send direct messages as well and we will end up the
same, right? Do yo uwant to turn the whole xmpp inside-out?

> Whereas in a top-down approach the SPIM is distributed to all servers,
> which then will find most recipients have set up privacy bans against
> the sender, so the message was transferred for nothing. The recipient
> server may be able to figure out, that the sender probably is a spimmer,
> but there is nothing it can do to protect itself from the traffic,
> as the sender isn't doing anything illegal.

Well, <message> stanzas are based on push principle. So I guess it is
more logical to make the broadcast the same way.

> | Or do you really think I should move the auto lists to another one, even
> | if they are nearly the same as the normal lists?
> No, not an extra document.. just two different options in the
> negotiation process.. although I didn't think you wanted to allow
> for changes to an auto-list. Once the auto-list is changed, what is
> it then? Does it become a regular list, or is the receiving server
> still making auto-changes to it?
Well, you can not modify the list itself. But you can expand it, remove
few addresses and save it as another list. The another list would be of
course the normal list and would stay from the time as normal list,
while the auto list would coexist independently on it.


There are two types of optimizations. The ones which make the program 
slower and the ones which make the user red by missing features.

Michal "vorner" Vaner
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