[Standards-JIG] Re: CALL FOR FEEDBACK: JEP-0060

Heiner Wolf wolf at bluehands.de
Sat May 27 19:37:22 UTC 2006

Peter Saint-Andre schrieb:
> Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

OK, Maestro,

> :-)

I appreciate the big work you have done for this and other documents. I 
know that servers and clients have been implemented and that most 
implementors are basically happy with JEP-0060. So, everything is OK.

The reason why I argue is NOT that I want to kill pubsub. Just your 
mentioning of trees triggered my suspicion, that you might already be a 
bit unhappy with the document. I took the chance to push you and maybe 
others a bit, just in case you needed a push to turn the JEP-0060 ship 

A protocol specification can provide a rich feature set with extensive 
examples. In other words: it can be 'complete'. Or it can be a small 
document with only core features. In one word: 'simple'.

Both are OK. The 'complete' approach will then come with simplifications 
as extra documents, called 'profiles', like PEP. The 'simple' approach 
will get 'extensions'. Both end up fairly similar. Both end up doing the 

(By the way, I saw that JEP-0060 was updated to support JEP-0163. This 
is OK as long as both are drafts, but once the core document is final, 
'profile' specifications can not update the core easily. This is a 
danger of 'complete' core specs.)

Let's first decide on the 'complete' or 'simple' approach. If you are 
happy with the 'complete' approach, then everything is OK. If you rather 
like a 'simple' approach, but just happen to have a 'complete' document, 
then we'll discuss the details.

(Just one note: if I mention SIP, then I don't want to devalue your 
work, nor do I want to compare the size and style of writing. It was 
just an example that some people use page count as a measure of 
complexity. And then they decide if it's worth the time. I am just 
afraid, that coders stay away from it. 130 pages is not much. Especially 
not for companies with products, but the Jabber community also depends 
on hobby coders, who might like core pubsub functionality more if it is 
  packed in 30 pages.)

So, Maestro, what do you intend? 'complete' or 'simple'

Dr. Heiner Wolf
bluehands GmbH & Co.mmunication KG
+49 (0721) 16108 75
Jabber enabled Virtual Presence on the Web: www.lluna.de
Open Source Future History: www.galactic-developments.de

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