[Standards] Any protocol to request encrypted connections?

Mridul mridul at sun.com
Tue Feb 6 18:14:37 UTC 2007

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Mridul wrote:
>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>> Ralph Meijer wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 16:19 +0000, Richard Dobson wrote:
>>>>>> why not jingle and use p2p udp with encryption of text?  but to be
>>>>>> honest sharing gpg keys between endpoints works well for me
>>>>> I have a feeling that wont work for what Matthias wants, I believe 
>>>>> he wants a method of ensuring the messages are delivered over 
>>>>> encrypted connections along the way but keeping the ability of 
>>>>> servers to be able to log those messages for compliance reasons, 
>>>>> so any form of e2e where the servers cannot decode the content is 
>>>>> pretty much out in this situation.
>>>> Given that you would need to trust all entities in the path between
>>>> end-points, I expect a better (only) approach would be to only 
>>>> route e2e
>>>> encrypted traffic that can also be decrypted by the logging server, or
>>>> something.
>>> IMHO that's not really e2e encryption, then. :-)
>>> Given the existence of certain government regulations, I understand 
>>> the effective need to log communications at the server side, 
>>> especially in enterprise environments. Such organizations will 
>>> probably not allow their employees to use end-to-end encryption. But 
>>> they might want to ensure that a stanza is sent over encrypted 
>>> channels all along the routing path (c2s at local domain, s2s 
>>> between local domain and foreign domain, c2s at foreign domain). I 
>>> think that such organizations will probably open up interdomain 
>>> federation only with trusted partners and suppliers. So they will 
>>> sign some kind of business level agreement that involves promises of 
>>> channel encryption (either categorically or upon request). If 
>>> channel encryption is not required categorically, the question then 
>>> becomes: how do you request that a stanza must be delivered only 
>>> over encrypted channels? Can you request it for a given chat 
>>> session, request it between two given entities, etc.?
>>> Peter
>> So essentially user wants to ask server if route to contact is secure.
>> For now ...
>> 1) user to server over tls.
>> 2) server to remote server over tls. (if remote).
>> 3) contact to server over tls.
>> 1 can be answered by user's client, 2 can be answered by user's 
>> server, 3 can be answered by a disco (new one?) to contact/remoteserver.
> Or I can simply ask my server and it can query the other server (if it 
> trusts the other servers, which in my scenario it does).

Yep, the above would just be steps as a result of that query :-)
It just gets short circuited in case of (1) though ... unless user is ok 
with local -> server being insecure (like secure lan, etc).

>> Not sure how this will work in case of intermediaries hosting 
>> contacts though.
> Intermediaries as in gateways?
> Peter

Yes, if your session is hosted on an intermediary like a proxy/component 
or gateway (example the jwchat xep 124 servlet which proxies the user 
It becomes split into multiple streams - between client & intermediary, 
between chain of intermediaries, and between final intermediary and 
server. (this is not like tunneling through a proxy using http connect btw).


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