[Standards] Threaded chats

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at jabber.org
Mon Feb 12 18:15:26 UTC 2007

Ian Paterson wrote:
> Robin Redeker wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 09, 2007 at 12:55:02PM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>> Well, nothing in XEP-0045 as it stands today forbids or discourages 
>>> the sending of groupchat messages with <subject/> elements within the 
>>> conversation flow, and <subject/> is not reserved for use in MUC 
>>> rooms only to advertise the room subject. So IMHO if a client assumes 
>>> that any message with a <body/> and <subject/> received in the 
>>> context of a MUC room pertains to the room subject, then it is making 
>>> a false assumption.
>> When looking at it: the <subject> child of a <message> tag is clearly
>> the 'message subject' and not the "topic" of a room or anything else.
> Yes.

And in XEP-0045 we said that if the message comes from the room itself 
(not any occupant of the room) and the message has no <body/>, then an 
occupant should assume that the <subject/> applies to the room (or, more 
  accurately, the current discussion) as a whole.

>> But I guess it's too late now to change such things :-/
> I don't think it's too late. Perhaps it just needs clarifying in XEP-0045?

Which of the following do people want to change or clarify?

1. Get rid of the "overloading" of <subject/> as described above in 
favor of some IQ-based protocol.

2. Clarify that message with subject but no body from the room is the 
room or discussion topic, whereas message with subject and body from an 
occupant is just another message (don't treat it as subject change).

I see no compelling reason for #1 (and no, protocol beautification is 
not a compelling reason). If you wanted a beautiful MUC protocol, you 
should have been around in 2002 (and MUC was never going to be beautiful 
anyway, since it needed to be backwards-compatible with groupchat 1.0).

But I'm happy to do #2.


Peter Saint-Andre
XMPP Standards Foundation

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