[Standards] Questions about xhtml-im

Jehan Jehan.3cqngc at no-mx.jabberforum.org
Fri Jul 18 09:58:51 UTC 2008

Maciek Niedzielski;1791 Wrote: 
> On the other hand, note that - while web is mostly HTML, and this HTML
> needs to contain everything - XMPP is about XML.

And I think XMPP also can contain anything as long as you define these
things. This is why it is about semantic, not rendering ("style"
attribute is only about rendering).

> So if you want to send 
> notifications, you use XML namespace designed to send notifications.
> And 
> when you want to send user readable text message with formatting, you 
> can use XML designed for this, which is XHTML.

Of course you use the namespace designed for it! This is not opposed!
Inside a notification, you can have also readable text message with
formatting! For instance, under a <item> prefixed under namespace
'http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#event', you 'may have Atom'
(http://tinyurl.com/6k8anf) <entry> (prefixed under
'http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom'), like proposed in example in the
XEP-0060. But it can also have many other sort of payload, and for
instance xhtml-im payload: 'here'
(http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/PubSub_message_types), there are many
examples of pubsub kind of events with many different payload

As a conclusion, of course you will use the proper pubsub#event
namespace, but inside you have freedom of payload. And it could be
xhtml-im for the readable text. Both concepts are not opposed.

> We want XHTML to format text, not to put there all data we wish to send
> and then think how to mark it correctly so that other peer guess its 
> semantic meaning.
> -- 
> Maciek
> xmpp:machekku (AT) uaznia (DOT) net

Of course, at the end, formatted text is presented to the peer, but
this is formatting done according to the semantic, not the opposite!
This is always the issue when people thought the "presentation" should
go first and then by sending a formatted text to a peer, this one
receives something unreadable with a completely different display that
what expected the sender, etc.
Haven't you ever experienced the problem when sending a file generated
by a text processor (Word, OpenOffice...) with the common habit of
people making title as bold with some police, going to lines and pages
by hand thinking it is nicer, etc. But then on another machine/version
of the program/with other polices/etc. you get something without any
structural logic.
And this is also the main issue of the web as a whole at the beginning,
reason why now it is recommending semantic more and more to fix most


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