[Standards] XEP-107 and XEP-108: Empty Value?

Florian Zeitz florian.zeitz at gmx.de
Mon May 5 09:59:30 UTC 2008

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Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Hmm. We didn't think about this case enough when we defined all these
> personal eventing payloads.
> IMHO, for personal eventing there is a difference between (1) deleting
> an event and (2) setting your state back to neutral. #1 rewrites history
> by effectively saying "well no I didn't have that last mood, please
> ignore it" whereas #2 says "yeah I was angry before but now I'm not". If
> we use personal eventing payloads as input to lifestreaming systems then
> I think we want to preserve the history but define neutral states for
> all of these.
I'd personally interpret it a bit different (but that's just personal
If you delete a node you're not really rewriting history, because when
there was a node back then one would assume that it was valid at that
time but isn't after it has been deleted.
Setting your state back to neutral has a different problem and that is
"What does that mean?"
Mood for example actually defines "neutral" as a mood, and that is
fundamentally different from "I'm not telling you how I feel" IMHO.

To take up your example of a lifestreaming system:
Let's say I'm listening to some Fiddler's Green Song. The lifestreaming
system might show:
"Florob is listening to Fiddler's Green - Drive Me Mad - Irish Air"
Now I stop my music. The system says
"Florob has stopped listening to music."
Now let's say I decide to not tell anybody that I enjoy listening to Die
Ärzte too. I'll turn off User Tune.
Now what should I do?
I can either set a neutral state, which will probably show
"Florob has stopped listening to music."
which is a lie.
Or I can delete the node, which according to your definition would
change history. I personally think it should mean:
"Florob has stopped telling us his taste, that evildoer"

As an alternative one could define a new neutral event that means
exactly that, but I'd personally consider that superfluous.

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