[Standards] stream restarts

Dave Cridland dave at cridland.net
Wed May 7 21:42:54 UTC 2008

(I note it's only the text/plain alternative of your messages which  
is mangled beyond belief. Is it Hotmail doing this?)

On Wed May  7 19:16:34 2008, Stephen Pendleton wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something, but what do you mean by "the binary  
> data stream which contains the opening <stream:stream>". Do you  
> mean non-ascii? If so, isn't the opening <stream:stream> ascii?
ASCII fits very nicely inside a binary data stream, which is just as  
well, because that particular data stream does indeed start off with  
some ASCII. And then does a TLS handshake, and continues with TLS  

> The current stanza flow is shown below. There are currently three  
> stream restarts, indicated by the <stream:stream> stanzas. I think  
> what is proposed is just to eliminate the 'extra' <stream:stream>  
> stanzas (2 from the server, 2 from the client).

You've run together three different streams, with four different XML  
streams running inside them. Apologies for the overloading of the  
term "stream" - I can't think of a better word right now.

When you say "[TLS negotiation]" and continue with other XML, what  
you actually could do more accurately is write "[Unreadable TLS 8-bit  
non-line-orientated data]". Much the same where you don't mention the  
layer insertion at all at the XEP-0138 point. This is what Justin  
means by saying that it reduces the "XMLishness" of the XML stream -  
it really isn't a complete document without those stream restarts.

Frankly, I'm not bothered at all by whether it's classically XML or  
not, it's much more interesting, to me, to argue this one over  
round-trips, and other things which are actually useful - I'm afraid  
I'm with Curtis, whether you think stream restarts are evil or not,  
they're here to stay, now, irregardless of whether we try to avoid  

Dave Cridland - mailto:dave at cridland.net - xmpp:dwd at jabber.org
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