[Standards] XEP-107 and XEP-108: Empty Value?

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at stpeter.im
Fri May 23 04:11:14 UTC 2008

On 05/05/2008 3:59 AM, Florian Zeitz wrote:
> Hash: SHA1
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> Hmm. We didn't think about this case enough when we defined all these
>> personal eventing payloads.
>> IMHO, for personal eventing there is a difference between (1) deleting
>> an event and (2) setting your state back to neutral. #1 rewrites history
>> by effectively saying "well no I didn't have that last mood, please
>> ignore it" whereas #2 says "yeah I was angry before but now I'm not". If
>> we use personal eventing payloads as input to lifestreaming systems then
>> I think we want to preserve the history but define neutral states for
>> all of these.
> I'd personally interpret it a bit different (but that's just personal
> opinion).
> If you delete a node you're not really rewriting history, because when
> there was a node back then one would assume that it was valid at that
> time but isn't after it has been deleted.
> Setting your state back to neutral has a different problem and that is
> "What does that mean?"
> Mood for example actually defines "neutral" as a mood, and that is
> fundamentally different from "I'm not telling you how I feel" IMHO.
> To take up your example of a lifestreaming system:
> Let's say I'm listening to some Fiddler's Green Song. The lifestreaming
> system might show:
> "Florob is listening to Fiddler's Green - Drive Me Mad - Irish Air"
> Now I stop my music. The system says
> "Florob has stopped listening to music."
> Now let's say I decide to not tell anybody that I enjoy listening to Die
> Ärzte too. I'll turn off User Tune.
> Now what should I do?
> I can either set a neutral state, which will probably show
> "Florob has stopped listening to music."
> which is a lie.

That seems a bit strong. :)

> Or I can delete the node, which according to your definition would
> change history. I personally think it should mean:
> "Florob has stopped telling us his taste, that evildoer"

It seems rather messy to delete the node and then re-create it all the
time. For example, lots of geolocation services enable you to specify
certain locations that are private. So when you move to a private
location, you want to stop publishing temporarily. But you might start
publishing again 20 minutes later or whatever. So why delete the node
(along with all its subscriptions) only to re-create it so soon?


Peter Saint-Andre

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