[Standards] STANAG 5066 availablity - RE: Proposed XMPP Extension: Server to Server communication over STANAG 50666 ARQ

Steve Kille steve.kille at isode.com
Wed Aug 26 18:42:59 UTC 2015



Thanks for raising this important point.   I did put a note in the draft, that I have requested permission from NATO to put the spec on the Web.


STANAG 5066 is NATO UNCLASSIFIED, so I can share with anyone who wants to review in context of this specification  - it is not a light read.


An interesting precedent is RFC 7467, which references ADatP-3 (not currently on the Web) plus a documented request to NATO to allow publication of the spec.


Here is what I think would be a very sensible and helpful approach.


1.        Allow publication “as is” as an Experimental XEP.  This will enable me to get it on the NATO BLOSCOMMS agenda in a couple of weeks, and to make the case to NATO.  Having a XEP (as opposed to a failed submission) will make this MUCH easier.    Although STANAG 5066 is not “on the Web” it is straightforward to get hold of for anyone who cares.


2.       Minute that it will not be allowed to progress beyond Experimental, unless STANAG 5066 is published on The Web.  This is sensible, as a standard should have fully open access to necessary components.    It will also help me push for this publication.



Does this make sense?  


Getting this as a XEP soon would help, as the key meetings are every six months (and the next one is very soon).








From: Standards [mailto:standards-bounces at xmpp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Cridland
Sent: 26 August 2015 16:59
To: XMPP Standards
Cc: XSF Members
Subject: Re: [Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Server to Server communication over STANAG 50666 ARQ




I've avoided voting on this because I want to seek some community input on it. Specifically, we (the XMP{P Standards Foundation) claim to be an Open Standards organization, and it's not clear if this submission qualifies because it has a dependency on STANAG 5066, which is not publicly available.


STANAG 5066 is a physical layer protocol providing services roughly akin to IPX/SPX and V.90 combined. It's in use both in the Military world (it's a NATO specification) and also by commercial HF radio modems in use by amateur radio operators ("hams") worldwide.


Many STANAG documents are available publicly in the NATO Standards Organisation's online document library, here: http://nso.nato.int/nso/nsdd/listpromulg.html - but STANAG 5066 is missing from this list.


I'd like to make it clear that otherwise, I'm thoroughly in favour of this.


Some parallel cases, which people may decide form a precedent (or may decide are completely different).



1) RTMP as a Jingle transport.


RTMP is (or was) a multimedia realtime transport protocol developed by Adobe, and in use in the Flash Player. The Council rejected a submission to allow its use as a Jingle transport, on the basis that it was a closed standard.


The minutes say:

"Council consensus that it is inappropriate to publish this proposal
given the proprietary nature of the RTMP technology on which this
specification depends."


STANAG 5066, although a STANdardization AGreement, is not publicly available, and therefore certainly doesn't form an "open standard".


2) SDN.801c in XEP-0258


As a counter-example of sorts, implementing XEP-0258 in any useful form in a server requires the use of the document SDN.801c, which (similar to STANAG 5066) is an unclassified document which is not publicly available.


However, XEP-0258 was, of course, published as a XEP - and indeed it's relatively simple to implement in a client, and its possible to implement a server which uses some other labelling model; arguably therefore SDN.801c is not a hard dependency in the same way.



I could go either way on this; though my ideal outcome would be that STANAG 5066 gets put in the NATO public STANAG library alongside the others.


Opinions welcome.




On 24 August 2015 at 23:32, XMPP Extensions Editor <editor at xmpp.org> wrote:

The XMPP Extensions Editor has received a proposal for a new XEP.

Title: Server to Server communication over STANAG 50666 ARQ

  This specification defines operation over XMPP over the NATO STANAG 5066 data link service for point to point links (ARQ).   This enables optimized XMPP performance over HF Radio (which STANAG 5066 was designed for) and over other data links using STANAG 5066.

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/s2s-over-s5066.html

The XMPP Council will decide in the next two weeks whether to accept this proposal as an official XEP.


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