[Standards] Deprecating Privacy Lists

Ben Langfeld ben at langfeld.me
Mon Oct 12 16:58:21 UTC 2015

On 12 October 2015 at 13:42, Evgeny Khramtsov <xramtsov at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:03:52 -0300
> Ben Langfeld <ben at langfeld.me> wrote:
> > I'm happy with people reporting bugs against my open source projects.
> > When they come back and ask "is it done yet?", then I get mad.
> Your feelings are very interesting to know, but how this relates to the
> original problem about privacy lists replacement? Seems like you're
> trying to move the topic in another direction.

My point is this:

1. What appears to be a majority of the XSF does not believe that Privacy
Lists should be promoted as the correct way to achieve the functionality it
intended to provide.
2. The XSF has a tool to indicate this.
3. Your complaint is that for the XSF to make that indication public,
someone must first write a replacement XEP.
4. You are not willing to write that XEP and further characterise other
developers who are similarly unwilling as customers of the XSF.

I think, being fair, it's easy to see that your desire for an alternative
XEP which provides the same functionality as Privacy Lists is appropriately
treated as a request, but that you cannot use it as a demand for someone to
do some work, or to block #1. Others have, earlier in this thread, made
solid arguments for why a deprecation does not logically require a

I'm not trying to move the topic in any other direction. I'm trying to say
"chill; ask don't demand; accept that maybe no-one will oblige your request
and that that's ok and does not mean that the XSF is broken".

> > "Has to" in the sense that in order to sustain standardisation, one
> > must write/edit standards. If you prefer to do something proprietary,
> > then of course you don't have to comply with the XSF's process. You
> > can't demand that the XSF does something and then say "but I won't do
> > it myself, YOU should do it".
> Yes, yes, I got your point: pay or do it yourself (GTFO, basically).

Those aren't the only options. Another is to simply be patient or to find
some other way in which to contribute. Your work on ejabberd is one of
those ways, and certainly has an important impact on XMPP. It can't be used
as a stick to demand someone write XEPs, though.

> The problem with such approach is that users tend to search for another
> project where developers don't treat them as complaining trolls.
> Though, this is also irrelevant to the current discussion about privacy
> lists :)
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