[Standards] Deprecating Privacy Lists

Genghis Khan genghiskhan at gmx.ca
Fri Oct 23 16:14:57 UTC 2015

I do not know how many of you heard of social networking platforms that
are based on XMPP, such as Movim and Salut à Toi

By deprecating XEP-0016, even if it does not mean nullification, we
might harm progress of XMPP based social networks.  Not only that the
centralized social networks deprecate and even actively destroy user
privacy, they do not seem to allow powerful privacy feature such as

Another reason to keep XEP-0016 until further corresponding
advancements be made is to protect this almost exclusive potential that
is now reserved to social networking platforms based on XMPP.

Also, if you think that XEP-0016, due to its complicity or flexibility
rate, is resulting in bad code or implementation, please update XEP-0016
with a new section that would provide a proper UI guidelines to handle it;
UI may be a filter dialog such of Email clients (e.g. Claws Mail and

Posts I legitimize or agree with:
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030396.html Florian Schmaus
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030397.html Goffi
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030398.html Christian Schudt
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030400.html Goffi
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030429.html Evgeny Khramtsov
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030434.html Evgeny Khramtsov
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030438.html Evgeny Khramtsov
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030460.html Christian Schudt
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030466.html Evgeny Khramtsov
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030481.html Evgeny Khramtsov
http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030484.html Evgeny Khramtsov

I strongly suggest not to deprecate XEP-0016 yet.

> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 11:02 PM
> From: "Sam Whited" <sam at samwhited.com>
> To: "XMPP Standards" <standards at xmpp.org>
> Subject: [Standards] Deprecating Privacy Lists
> I've brought up reconciling privacy lists and the blocking command in
> the past [1], but the discussion faltered and it never went before the
> council. It was brought up as part of a recent discussion again [2],
> and I'd like to formally propose that it be deprecated.
> I have made a pull request here: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/104
> As I see it, privacy lists are complicated and don't work well with
> the blocking command in practice. As an example, if I block a user (on
> an ejabberd server) in Gajim (which uses privacy lists), and then view
> the same user in Conversations (which suports the blocking command),
> that user does not appear blocked because Gajim's privacy list is
> slightly different from what the server considers "blocked" so it's
> never mapped to the privacy lists.
> The majority of the functionality of privacy lists is covered by
> - XEP-0191: Blocking command
> - XEP-0186: Invisibility
> While privacy lists do have other functionality, it is rarely used.
> Deprecating privacy lists will simplify the XMPP stack and remove one
> more interop issue between clients which implement different
> protocols, and I'd like to request that it be taken up and discussed
> by the council.
> Best,
> Sam
> [1]: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2014-December/029402.html
> [2]: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-September/030358.html
> -- 
> Sam Whited
> pub 4096R/54083AE104EA7AD3
> https://blog.samwhited.com

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