[Standards] [XEP-0372] References and mention

Goffi goffi at goffi.org
Wed Apr 20 17:20:53 UTC 2016


I finally had an answer for my requests on mentions and references, but I still 
find it incomplete. So I'm trying to explain my points here so we can move 
forward on this subject.

1) who is sending the notification ?

correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand references right now, if Juliet 
is mentioned somewhere, she can receive a message with an "anchor" attribute, 
something like (in reference to example 3 in XEP-0372):

<message type='chat'
         to='juliet at capulet.lit'>
  <body>But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, 
and Juliet is the sun.</body>
  <reference xmlns='urn:xmpp:reference:0'
             uri='xmpp:juliet at capulet.lit'
	      anchor='xmpp:balcony at chat.shakespeare.lit?message;id=sotehu-

note that the uri in anchor is not standard, I've made it up because there is 
currently no standard URI scheme for a message (see #2).

So who is sending this notification? The XEP says "a service could listen for 
mentions in a MIX channels of users outside that channel, and send them 
messages containing a reference to let them know that they've been 
mentioned.", but what it there is no linked service?

Use case: I have a picture on my laptop, and I tag somebody on it (says 
Juliet), I want to notify her so she can request it with Jingle. Should my 
client send this notification? Then on a PubSub/MUC/MIX/Whatever what if there 
is also a service which monitor and send mention references? Or several? It 
may result in tons of notifications

2) no URI scheme

This is not directly related to references but sound like a major problem at 
the moment to me: we have no URI scheme to
	- reference a chat message
	- reference a whole stanza
	- reference a jingle file
Maybe XEP-0359 can be somehow reused to build an URI, but this definitely need 
a move.

3) no author

In my proposal (http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jid-mention.html), section 
4.4, there is the notion of "author" which doesn't exists in XEP-0372. This is 
needed when a mention is done outside of XMPP and relayed by a XMPP service.

use case: Juliet is writting a thesis on Love and balconies and mention 
Charles Baudelaire in a pdf. A XMPP service (mention.capulet.lit) detect it 
and send a mention reference to Charles, but the emitting jid is the one of 
the XMPP service (mention.capulet.lit) and so Charles has no way to know that 
the mention came from juliet.

4) stanza mention

as I pointed out in my previous message (08/02/2016 12:20), it is not possible 
to mention an element of a stanza (which is a critical case for mentions in 
blog). This point need to be solved, what about some form of xpath in an 

5) minor remarks

in addition to my previous remarks (message from 08/02/2016 12:20), there a 
these ones

	- it would be nice to add a glossary specifying what is a "referring 
message". It's quite obvious, but still it may help in a specification
	- in example 4 pubsub URI is invalid, fixed version is 
	- section 3.1 talks about begin, end and anchor "elements" but they are 
actually attributes

And I think that's it. I'm willing to implement mentions in our client, but 
these points are still blocking, and I hope we can solve this quickly.

Thanks :)

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