[Standards] Unread syncing

Kevin Smith kevin.smith at isode.com
Fri Dec 2 15:57:31 UTC 2016

On 2 Dec 2016, at 15:49, forenjunkie <forenjunkie at chello.at> wrote:
> Its not written down somewhere that its up to the client, but it makes no sense to put a selflimiting hard rule on a archiving XEP like MAM and exclude certain messages per XEP rule.

> We have store hints, the most prominent servers respect these. And it would make no sense to not respect it if a client explicitly wishes for a message to be stored.

Oh, it’d make lots of sense. Server admins can very reasonably want to choose how their archive is populated, rather than having remote clients do so.

> So to make it more clear, if i want to save a message on a current prosody or ejabbered MAM implemenation, i can do this as a client with a store hint.

While that’s nice for you, Prosody and ejabberd are certainly not the whole world ;)

> you dont have to querry the whole archive, you just querry until you get a read marker, then you know everything that comes before that was already read so i dont have to query it.

This is untrue, though. If I have two contacts, it’s quite easy for me to have unread messages for contact A that are hundreds or thousands of messages older than my messages from contact B, all of which are read. If I merely read the archive backwards until I found a read marker, I wouldn’t find the unread messages for contact A.


> Am 02.12.2016 um 16:34 schrieb Kevin Smith:
>> On 2 Dec 2016, at 15:26, forenjunkie <forenjunkie at chello.at> wrote:
>>> in a single chat conversation, it makes no sense to query unread messages.
>> I’m not sure that’s true at all, but putting that to the side for the minute...
>>> you could just query the last 10 MAM Messages, if no readmarker comes with it, query another 10. such a implementation of MAM would be very weird to me, but you could do it and get only unread messages with it. So this already works without problem with the MAM and 0333 XEP.
>>> And in single chat its not possible to "miss" a message in between, which you would want to query.
>> I think you’re missing the details of what I asked - how do you achieve this where there are a sufficient number of messages that just keeping querying until you have every message in your local archive isn’t viable?
>>> And this is not a theory, XEP-0333 are stored by the server if the client wishes that, and working implementations of MAM and 0333 together you can witness for example in Conversations.
>> It’s not up to the client whether 333 is stored by the server or not.
>>> All i see in this proposal is adding complexity to the whole process in introducing another thing the server has to support.
>> Referring back to my previous question, can you provide an example of how to achieve this case with just 313 and 333 (in protocol)?
>> /K
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