[Standards] XMPP Council Minutes 2018-08-01

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Mon Aug 6 15:25:57 UTC 2018


1) Roll Call
Present: Sam, Dave, Kev, Georg
Pursuing business interests in the Middle Kingdom: Daniel

2) Agenda Bashing
No agenda changes; Georg liked it, but didn't put a ring on it.

3a) PR #681 - XEP-0050: Remove the status attribute from the request - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/681
Dave thinks this seems like a pretty straightforward case of fixing the optional inclusion of an attribute that the receiver is mandated to ignore. Kev thinks it was the result of a typo ('status' instead of 'action'), and fixing the typo might be the better fix.
Sam wonders why there should be an optional attribute at all; Dave suggests it makes more sense if it's restating a default. Sam thinks it should still be required so it can be relied upon, otherwise it's cumbersome to have to check whether it's the default value or if it exists; Dave clarifies that if it's not the default value then it could be cancelling.
Dave asks Kev to make a comment noting the typo possibility [reply to minutes?], to spur Dave into investigating in more detail (and maybe there's an example that clarifies.)
Georg thinks Kev is right regarding the typo, but the PR is self-consistent and also removes the typo.

Dave: +1
Sam: +1 (seems very sensible)
Georg: +1
Kev: [pending]
Daniel: [pending]

3b) Proposed XMPP Extension: File Sharing Notifications - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fsn.html
Kev doesn't like several things about this, and thinks it could be done in a better way, but doesn't see anything preventing Experimental.
Georg doesn't like that there's no enumeration of all possible FSN states, nor an example of how to stop FSN, but likes the idea.
Georg suggests putting the FSN payload into CSN, but has no strong opinion; Dave thinks there was some discussion around that idea; Jonas provides reasons against this: CSN is final, and FSN states should be orthogonal to CSN states (see Business Rules.)

Kev: +1
Georg: +1
Dave: +1 (a protocol in this space would be useful)
Sam: [on-list] (agree with Kev, but not sure if it should go to Experimental)
Daniel: [pending]

3c) PR #682 - XEP-0065, XEP-0363: Document exposing the service on the user’s domain - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/682
Dave understands why this is a single PR, but isn't sure it's a good idea as XEP-0001 suggests two changes against two XEPs should be distinct council votes. Jonas explains that council doesn't need to vote on the second change, since 0363 isn't Draft yet - if the 0065 change is rejected, the author could split it off; Dave concurs.
Kev thinks that while the intention is right, the way it's formulated adds confusion - leading with "Here's how you see a domain has the feature", but then "here's how you check the subdomains if it doesn't".
Dave would like to take on board Kev's comment before voting, to see whether he agrees.

Sam: [on-list] (missed this, but looking forward to reading it)
Georg: [on-list] (will have to research the context for the 0065 change first)
Dave: [on-list]
Kev: -1 (agree on principle, but not execution; would like to be persuaded before it's merged)
Daniel: [pending]

3d) Proposed XMPP Extension: Schrödinger's Chat - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-selfping.html
Dave has some comments, but nothing to prevent it going into Experimental.
Sam is concerned about the title not being discoverable, but otherwise +1.
Kev might quibble about "sometimes, without warning, intercept, optionally", but thinks it seems sane otherwise; aside from the title, which pushes the envelope of silliness a little too far. Dave says it's far, far too late for Kev to pretend he's sensible.

Jonas poses the question of what happens when another multi-session nick (MSN) client changes your nickname while your ping is still in-flight, so you receive item-not-found because your ping target has vanished.
Georg thinks this is an interesting point, and asks whether Jonas knows of any implementations that change your nickname using MSN; Jonas says it can also happen if you change your own nickname, though this could be solved by deferring the ping.
Georg doesn't think one would change nick and then ping your own old nick; Jonas points out there's a delay until you receive the server ack and update internal records; Georg requests that Jonas documents this in Business Considerations.

There is much debate over the XEP's title; none take immediate exception to the silliness, but some feel it should be more descriptive.
After some deliberation, Georg eventually concedes and goes with "MUC Self-Ping (Schrödinger's Chat)".

Georg: +1 (obviously)
Sam: -1 (temporary, until title is made more discoverable)
Kev: +1
Dave: +1
Daniel: [pending]

4) Outstanding Votes
Dave declares, with reckless abandon, that everything has expired.

5) Next Meeting
2018-08-08 1500 UTC

6) AOB
Dave assumes there is none. There is none - Dave wins a limited edition XMPP t-shirt.

7) Close
There is much hand-shaking, back-patting, and cheering as everybody thanks everyone else on a job well done.

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