[Standards] XMPP Council Minutes 2018-03-21

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Thu Mar 22 19:09:42 UTC 2018


Dave warns he's on a train and may not manage to achieve all 4 of the necessary Gs.

1) Roll Call
Dave orders bacon and cheese, Georg wants the same; Sam wants cheese on all the things.

Present: Dave, Georg, Sam, Kev.
AWOL: Daniel

.) For fork's sake, can somebody else take the minutes?

The mystery continues..

2) Advance XEP-0066 to Final - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0066.html

Dave: -1 (don't think it meets the implementation criteria)
Kev: -1 (not clear we satisfied the implementation requirements, even ignoring all the other issues onlist)
Georg: -1 (looks like there was some major resistance; good candidate for the "take the best parts and run")
Sam: +1 (seems "good enough"; there's a bit of awkwardness, "take the best parts and run" sounds good)
Daniel: [pending]

3) Advance XEP-0048 to Final - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0048.html

Dave notes there is a competing proposal in bookmarks2 (agendum 4)

Georg: -1
Dave: -1 (to advance; would rather move this to historical again)
Sam: +1 (to freeze as final; or +1 to move to historical)
Kev: -1 (not clear that two independent implementations exist, plus assorted issues)
Daniel: [pending]

4) Adopt Proposal "Bookmarks 2 (This Time it's Serious)" - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bookmarks2.html

Kev in favour of reverting 48 to iq:private, make it Historical, and advance Bookmarks 2 in PIP.
Dave is happy if the title is changed, but it'd be good if '48's title changed at the same time.

Georg: +1 (want to see where Bookmarks2TTiS leads)
Sam: +1
Kev: +1
Dave: +1 (obviously)
Daniel: [pending]

Kev suggests changing 48's title to "Bookmarks in Private Storage", and Bookmarks 2 to "Bookmarks in Pubsub (or something)".
Sam would be against reverting to private storage.
Kev says this is just documenting what's in place; Dave says it does seem that's what's implemented.

5) XEP-0050 Ad-Hoc Commands: Clarify 'execute' actions equivalence - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/591

Note: This is an alternative to #598 (agendum 6)

Kev recommends changing 0050 either to clarify there's a bad state, or change the text to avoid the bad state;
though Flow's (#591) is the technically better change, it is a breaking change to xep50, while Kev's change (#598) is just clarifying that if you do something in particular, you're being stupid.
Kev answers Dave's query of whether it's a breaking change in theory or practice, that this is the result of people doing silly things in practice; Georg suggests it might be better to fix things in practice then.
Kev votes -1 for #591 as-is because it should explain the breaking change (breaking changes to Draft XEPs should be avoided), but could be persuaded on the basic approach.
Georg argues that if people didn't realise the problem existed, a breaking change to the XEP describing better behaviour also should improve things without being a problem.
Sam votes +1, agreeing that an explanation (of the breaking change) would be useful.
Dave isn't sure it is a breaking change as it fixes previously broken behaviour; Kev and Georg clarify it would mean a change in behaviour such that the new/updated implementations could interact with old/broken servers.
Georg votes +1 if a note could be added similar to the one added to 0045 last week.
Dave isn't convinced it's entirely a breaking change and votes +1 for both #591 and #598.
Sam thinks it's worth taking the opportunity to clear up the issue.

In a dramatic change of events, Kev decides both PRs might be wrong.
Georg is understandably lost.
Everybody changes their votes and decides it's best to have a chance to reinvestigate and vote for both PRs on-list.

Dave: -1
Georg: [to vote on-list]
Sam: [to vote on-list]
Kev: -1 (to vote on-list, but default to -1 until further notice)
Daniel: [pending]

6) XEP-0050. Try to clarify usage of 'execute' - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/598

Note: This is an alternative to #591 (agendum 5)

Discussion and votes were mixed-in with discussion of agendum 5 (see above).

Dave: -1
Georg: [to vote on-list]
Sam: [to vote on-list]
Kev: -1 (to vote on-list, but default to -1 until further notice)
Daniel: [pending]

7) XEP-0223: Add a warning about publish-options support - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/608

Georg notes the PR comes with a notice about making discovery a MUST and asks whether that can also be voted on.
Kev and Dave compete for bragging rights over who was first to veto their own PR.
Kev makes a note to Editor that PEP needs to change to Pubsub in this PR before merge, as this isn't storing anything in PEP.

Kev: +1 (provisional on SHOULD/MUST and PEP/Pubsub, to speed things along)
Dave: -1 (prefer MUST check discovery and I'm find with changing it to Pubsub)
Sam: +1
Georg: +1
Daniel: [pending]

Dave, who originally voted +1, now holds the PR hostage to ensure his demands are met (will change to a +1 the moment the MUST happens.)

8) Next Meeting
Note: Much of Europe observes daylight saving time at 01:00 on 2018-03-25, advancing +1 hour.

15:15Z is agreed (10:15 CDT; 11:15 EDT; 16:15 BST; 17:15 CEST; 18:15 UTC+3).

9) AOB
Dave hopes there is none as his train is arriving.
Georg wanted to vote on abolishing Pidgin.

10) Close
Thanks all round.

Georg feels cheated out of the opportunity to vote on *anything.*
Sam suggests a motion for all future XSF business to be conducted in Latin.

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