[Standards] XMPP Council Minutes 2018-03-21

Dave Cridland dave at cridland.net
Thu Mar 22 19:49:40 UTC 2018


Thanks! These are awesome!

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018, 19:10 Tedd Sterr, <teddsterr at outlook.com> wrote:

> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-03-21/#16:00:28
>
> Dave warns he's on a train and may not manage to achieve all 4 of the
> necessary Gs.
>
> *1) Roll Call*
> Dave orders bacon and cheese, Georg wants the same; Sam wants cheese on
> all the things.
>
> Present: Dave, Georg, Sam, Kev.
> AWOL: Daniel
>
> *.) For fork's sake, can somebody else take the minutes?*
>
> The mystery continues..
>
> *2) Advance XEP-0066 to Final* - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0066.html
>
> Dave: -1 (don't think it meets the implementation criteria)
> Kev: -1 (not clear we satisfied the implementation requirements, even
> ignoring all the other issues onlist)
> Georg: -1 (looks like there was some major resistance; good candidate for
> the "take the best parts and run")
> Sam: +1 (seems "good enough"; there's a bit of awkwardness, "take the best
> parts and run" sounds good)
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> *3) Advance XEP-0048 to Final* - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0048.html
>
> Dave notes there is a competing proposal in bookmarks2 (agendum 4)
>
> Georg: -1
> Dave: -1 (to advance; would rather move this to historical again)
> Sam: +1 (to freeze as final; or +1 to move to historical)
> Kev: -1 (not clear that two independent implementations exist, plus
> assorted issues)
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> *4) Adopt Proposal "Bookmarks 2 (This Time it's Serious)"* -
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bookmarks2.html
>
> Kev in favour of reverting 48 to iq:private, make it Historical, and
> advance Bookmarks 2 in PIP.
> Dave is happy if the title is changed, but it'd be good if '48's title
> changed at the same time.
>
> Georg: +1 (want to see where Bookmarks2TTiS leads)
> Sam: +1
> Kev: +1
> Dave: +1 (obviously)
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> Kev suggests changing 48's title to "Bookmarks in Private Storage", and
> Bookmarks 2 to "Bookmarks in Pubsub (or something)".
> Sam would be against reverting to private storage.
> Kev says this is just documenting what's in place; Dave says it does seem
> that's what's implemented.
>
> *5) XEP-0050 Ad-Hoc Commands: Clarify 'execute' actions equivalence* -
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/591
>
> Note: This is an alternative to #598 (agendum 6)
>
> Kev recommends changing 0050 either to clarify there's a bad state, or
> change the text to avoid the bad state;
> though Flow's (#591) is the technically better change, it is a breaking
> change to xep50, while Kev's change (#598) is just clarifying that if you
> do something in particular, you're being stupid.
> Kev answers Dave's query of whether it's a breaking change in theory or
> practice, that this is the result of people doing silly things in practice;
> Georg suggests it might be better to fix things in practice then.
> Kev votes -1 for #591 as-is because it should explain the breaking change
> (breaking changes to Draft XEPs should be avoided), but could be persuaded
> on the basic approach.
> Georg argues that if people didn't realise the problem existed, a breaking
> change to the XEP describing better behaviour also should improve things
> without being a problem.
> Sam votes +1, agreeing that an explanation (of the breaking change) would
> be useful.
> Dave isn't sure it is a breaking change as it fixes previously broken
> behaviour; Kev and Georg clarify it would mean a change in behaviour such
> that the new/updated implementations could interact with old/broken servers.
> Georg votes +1 if a note could be added similar to the one added to 0045
> last week.
> Dave isn't convinced it's entirely a breaking change and votes +1 for both
> #591 and #598.
> Sam thinks it's worth taking the opportunity to clear up the issue.
>
> In a dramatic change of events, Kev decides both PRs might be wrong.
> Georg is understandably lost.
> Everybody changes their votes and decides it's best to have a chance to
> reinvestigate and vote for both PRs on-list.
>
> Dave: -1
> Georg: [to vote on-list]
> Sam: [to vote on-list]
> Kev: -1 (to vote on-list, but default to -1 until further notice)
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> *6) XEP-0050. Try to clarify usage of 'execute'* -
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/598
>
> Note: This is an alternative to #591 (agendum 5)
>
> Discussion and votes were mixed-in with discussion of agendum 5 (see
> above).
>
> Dave: -1
> Georg: [to vote on-list]
> Sam: [to vote on-list]
> Kev: -1 (to vote on-list, but default to -1 until further notice)
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> *7) XEP-0223: Add a warning about publish-options support* -
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/608
>
> Georg notes the PR comes with a notice about making discovery a MUST and
> asks whether that can also be voted on.
> Kev and Dave compete for bragging rights over who was first to veto their
> own PR.
> Kev makes a note to Editor that PEP needs to change to Pubsub in this PR
> before merge, as this isn't storing anything in PEP.
>
> Kev: +1 (provisional on SHOULD/MUST and PEP/Pubsub, to speed things along)
> Dave: -1 (prefer MUST check discovery and I'm find with changing it to
> Pubsub)
> Sam: +1
> Georg: +1
> Daniel: [pending]
>
> Dave, who originally voted +1, now holds the PR hostage to ensure his
> demands are met (will change to a +1 the moment the MUST happens.)
>
> *8) Next Meeting*
> Note: Much of Europe observes daylight saving time at 01:00 on 2018-03-25,
> advancing +1 hour.
>
> 15:15Z is agreed (10:15 CDT; 11:15 EDT; 16:15 BST; 17:15 CEST; 18:15
> UTC+3).
>
> *9) AOB*
> Dave hopes there is none as his train is arriving.
> Georg wanted to vote on abolishing Pidgin.
>
> *10) Close*
> Thanks all round.
>
> Georg feels cheated out of the opportunity to vote on *anything.*
> Sam suggests a motion for all future XSF business to be conducted in Latin.
>
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