[Standards] XMPP Council Minutes 2018-11-14

Dave Cridland dave at cridland.net
Fri Nov 16 10:34:30 UTC 2018


Hi all,

Sorry about last Wednesday, unfortunately I've had a bit of a family crisis
which needed a lot of attention - it should now be in hand, but my head
hasn't really had the space to think until now.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 19:40, Tedd Sterr <teddsterr at outlook.com> wrote:

> http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-11-14/#16:01:26
>
> Kev rounds up the troops.
>
> *1) Roll call*
> Present: Georg, Kev, Sam
> Apologies: Daniel
> Missing, presumed alive: Dave
>
> *2) Agenda*
> Kev takes one look at the long list of potential items and proposes
> putting everything off until next week, under the mistaken belief there
> will be an extra week to work with - he's soon corrected.
> Georg and Sam would prefer to get the voting started now and have a week
> for on-list discussion - Kev gives in to popular opinion.
>
> *3) Advance XEP-0357 (Push Notifications) to DRAFT* -
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html
> Kev: [on-list]
> Sam: [on-list] (don't really have the necessary background knowledge for a
> good opinion)
> Georg: -1 (high priority topic hasn't been addressed; but really liked the
> stripped stanza proposal)
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
> Kev is very much in favour of allowing pushing through the real data.
> Georg thinks the current XEP is much better than it was half a year ago,
> but the feedback from August hasn't been addressed.
> Kev thinks privacy does need to be supported, but it's useful to allow
> users/deployments to decide the trade-off between utility and privacy;
> Georg says a tri-state of none/stripped/full would make that possible; Sam
> thinks that seems over-complicated, but supports allowing data.
> Kev admits some responsibility for 0357, and should put time in, but a
> time-machine might be required.
>
>
I believe this is awaiting a bit of processing of feedback - so I'm a -1 on
advancing it right now.


> *4) Advance XEP-0359 (Unique and Stable Stanza IDs) to DRAFT* -
> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0359.html
> Georg thinks the current status quo of hard-coding "you have a new
> message" into the server module is non-ideal; has submitted some feedback
> and would like to see it addressed, but won't block on that basis.
>
>
I don't quite understand that - is the new message thing to do with '357?


> Georg: +0 (+1 if above feedback is properly addressed)
> Kev: [on-list]
> Sam: [on-list]
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
>
+1

I don't particularly like the stanza-id concept, but I'll grudgingly admit
it's needed. I'm a little concerned that the structure means that there's
be lots of elements in the message under the same namespace which all need
an explicit namespace declaration - that said, the alternative would be
harder for processors to slip into stanzas on the way past, so perhaps this
is the lesser of two evils.


> *5) PR #692 - XEP-0060: correct "entity" to "<subscription/>"* -
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/692
> Kev: [on-list]
> Sam: +0
> Georg: [on-list]
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
>
+1


> *6) PR #693 - XEP-0060: Remove unused 'node' attribute on pubsub#event
> item* - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/693
> Kev: [on-list]
> Georg: [on-list]
> Sam: +0 (not confident enough with pub-sub to review it, no matter how
> many times I re-read it)
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
> Georg thinks this meeting is so productive!
>
>
+1


> *7) PR #715 - XEP-0045: Add missing disco#info feature to example 4, 9, 78
> and 218* - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/715
> Kev: [on-list]
> Georg: [on-list]
> Sam: +1
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
>
+0 - this is reasonable, but I don't think it matters that much. See below.


> *8) PR #716 - XEP-0030: Clarify 'disco#info' feature in 'disco#info'
> responses* - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/716
> Kev: [on-list]
> Sam: -1
> Georg: [on-list]
> Daniel: [pending]
> Dave: [pending]
>
> Sam agrees that it's weird to always include 'disco#info' when it's
> obviously supported, but doesn't see the need to modify a Final XEP and add
> optional behaviour, and recommends just following the standard as written.
> Jonas thinks that's the most sensible word on the subject so far.
> Jonas could ensure that the feature is present in every relevant example
> in the XEP, if Council so wishes.
> Kev isn't keen on making non-vital changes to XEP-0030. Sam doesn't think
> leaving it as-is will cause anything to break.
> Georg isn't sure it's needed in all examples in all XEPs, and would rather
> add a note in 0030 that the feature may not be present in examples but must
> still be implemented; Sam thinks that sounds reasonable. Georg and Sam
> agree this would be an editorial change, and would be happy for Editors to
> just change it. Jonas requests wording - Sam provides "Note that this is
> sometimes omitted in examples in the XEP series"; Georg amends that to
> "Note that the disco#info feature is …"
>
>
+1 - If we say that disco#info responses MUST include the disco#info
feature, we have a MUST that has no impact on interoperability, and that's
wrong. It's also not what people actually do - which demonstrates that
there's no point to the requirement.


> *9) Date of next*
> 2018-11-21 1600 UTC
>
> [Note: this will be the final meeting of the current council; any
> remaining votes should preferably be made before the end of the day to
> allow processing by Editors.]
>
> *10) AOB*
> Georg asks whether there were any expired votes to recast, or open votes
> remaining from last week. Kev says the PR #717 vote is still open. Jonas
> and Kev think the expired were already covered. [PRs #692 and #693 are the
> resurrected-from-expired votes.]
>
> Georg has started working on the Moved XEP, but it turned out to be a huge
> mess implementation-wise; will submit it to the next Council.
>
> *11) Close*
> Thanks all.
> Kev reaches end-of-file.
>
>
> *Discussion of 'Moved' continues…*
>
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