[Standards] Proposed XMPP Extension: Fallback Indication

Jonas Schäfer jonas at wielicki.name
Tue Dec 31 07:07:57 UTC 2019

Comments inline. I'm trying a new MUA, I hope it won't butcher this message.

30 Dec 2019 6:58:51 pm Dave Cridland :

> Please note Section 2.3 in this document.
> Having some clear and consistent mechanism for indicating that, when heuristically deciding if a message is an "Instant Message", systems should ignore the and would eliminate my arguments against using enthusiastically for fallback purposes. So *something* like this is needed unless you're all happy for me to veto everything that says to insert a fallback. Muahahaha, etc, but no, really.
> I would genuinely like to resurrect XEP-0334 for this - if there is interest there I have some suggestions for reworking it to be a little more comfortably extensible which, I think, was Sam's main objection alongside wanting to keep capabilities like no-copy inside the specifications which needed it. The latter argument is weaker for everything other than no-copy, and indeed I think in cases such as fallback it's literally counter to the point.

I think Hints should stay in their grave. We addressed the no-copy case with IM-NG hopefully, and I think that a one-purpose spec like your Fallback Indicator has a much better chance at reaching Draft or Final than a redo or fix of something broader like Hints -- and there is no gain in mixing the concerns.

In addition, the Fallback Indicator is much more semantic than anything Hints had, and thus allows a Processing Entity to do policy decisions on how to handle such content much easier.

> So... If Council wants to reject this in favour of improving/tidying/accepting hints, I'm absolutely fine with that - but I could use a little more input there on what that would look like.
> Dave.
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 at 13:29, Jonas Schäfer < jonas at wielicki.name [mailto:jonas at wielicki.name] > wrote:
> > The XMPP Extensions Editor has received a proposal for a new XEP.
> >
> > Title: Fallback Indication
> > Abstract:
> > This specification proposes a mechanism by which message bodies can be
> > marked as being purely for fallback purposes, and therefore to be
> > ignored by intermediaries and anything that understands the remainder
> > of the message.
> >
> > URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fallback.html [https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fallback.html]
> >
> > The Council will decide in the next two weeks whether to accept this
> > proposal as an official XEP.
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