[Standards] Council Minutes 2019-07-24

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Mon Jul 29 01:10:15 UTC 2019


1) Roll Call
Present: Jonas, Kev, Georg, Dave, Link

2) Agenda Bashing
Dave thinks there are only two AOB items to discuss, but asks whether anyone has anything else - everyone does their best to look innocent.

3) Items for a vote
Dave checks his pockets for spare votes, finding nothing but some loose change and a crumpled tissue.

4) Outstanding Votes
Dave mentions that Kev has some expiring today, plus more next week for both Kev and himself.

5) Next Meeting
2019-07-31 1500 UTC

Kev expects to put in a full appearance next week.
Dave boasts of his plans to expose himself to near-dangerous levels of UV the following week; everyone in mainland Europe finds this oddly amusing.

6a) AOB i
Georg reminisces about XEP-0412 (XMPP Compliance Suites 2019) being published and the surrounding discussion of how to make 2020 even better [see item 4c in https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-April/036074.html] - there were great ideas, but they would require potentially significant changes to process and tooling; as nobody has stepped up to make such changes, Georg proposes either to ask for a volunteer, or fork CS2019 himself and continue the current process.
Georg likes the idea of 'living documents,' but not with version numbers, and year numbers is already similar to the current process. Dave thinks the enemy of the published Compliance Suites is the dream of the perfect one - Kev thinks the current method of publishing is the enemy.
Georg suggests using August to recruit somebody to make the dream a reality, and would then be glad to fork CS2019 for CS2020 with the addition of a "Future" section. Dave thinks little tends to get done in August, and then with the run-up to Council elections, etc., it's unlikely to happen before the start of 2020; is therefore in favour of Georg just getting on with it, if he is willing.
Kev believes the current Compliance Suites, especially the noise and distraction for Council they generate each year, is harmful - Georg hasn't perceived this as a huge problem, besides burning out maintainers.
Kev would like a short video conference for those Council members who feel strongly about this try to understand the relevant process issues - Dave will arrange something.

6b) AOB ii
Georg refers to his mail [https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2019-July/036285.html] regarding referencing messages (see section 1) - everyone generally agrees on the principle.
Kev would prefer to do this using XEP-0372 (References), even if that means stripping it back - Georg has considered this option, but References doesn't define references to other messages. Georg's preferred solution, as a new "Message References" XEP, would be to provide a way to build a graph (DAG) of messages up to a root, and allow servers to emit the full graph upon request of any messages from the graph; with XEP-0372 being renamed to something else (maybe "Message Content Annotations").
Kev hints that References can reference other messages as long as you have a usable ID for constructing a URI; Georg thinks using URIs would become a major distraction and possibly lead to security issues - prefers a simple ID attribute, with Business Rules to define what the ID should reference. Link thinks it would be useful to be able to link to messages 'externally', e.g. for scrolling to a specific message; Jonas doesn't think it's necessary to wrap IDs in URIs from within XMPP.
Kev mentions the utility of linking to chat messages with URIs in other chat systems.

Dave notes the time and suggests continuing this discussion on-list, and encouraging others to join in.

7) Close
Thanks. Thanks. Tnx. Thanks all.

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