[Standards] Inbox and Other Stories
andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.ru
Mon Jun 3 14:31:03 UTC 2019
On unread markers, having re-read the sent message, I think I wasn't clear
enough. What was meant is that the last read message ID will likely point
to a message that we don't yet have on device, and thus will be unable to
calculate, how many messages we missed.
пн, 3 июн. 2019 г. в 19:26, Ненахов Андрей <andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.ru>:
> Ok, it took me some time to get to this. I think some preamble is
> necessary, with explanation of our motives. *Those who're just interested
> in stanza format can skip to big TL;DR header below. *
> The whole idea, and even utter necessity of such mechanics came to us when
> we were preparing to make an XMPP client that is capable to work on iOS. As
> you all know, basic XMPP works well enough when there is a persistent
> connection with server. This persistent connection can be more or less
> maintained on most modern OSs, even on Android (though it is more and more
> difficult, later versions of Android really fight against any persistent
> processes). But with iOS, there is no way other than to work fully offline,
> relying on push notifications to wake up.
> Not only that, on iOS, an app has less than 30 seconds before it is shut
> down, or brought into foreground by user. Thus, an iOS app has to quickly
> connect, fetch all the necessary data, present, if necessary, all
> notifications to a user, and prepare to go offline.
> The most direct approach to catch up what was missed is with offline
> messages. It works more or less OK (more on that later) if a user is active
> on a single device, but starts to fail utterly if user is trying to use
> several devices simultaneously. Second approach is to fetch all messages
> from an archive, between now and the latest message received from the
> server. This *can* work more or less OK, if periods of disconnection are
> relatively brief. (btw this is the method employed in current builds for
> Xabber for iOS). However, there are scenarios when such approach will
> clearly fail. Most of them revolve around device being offline for a
> significant amount of time and a user being active on another device,
> sending and receiving multiple messages in one conversation, 'burying'
> incoming unread message from another conversation deeper than query to
> message archive.
> To effectively tackle this problem we came up with an approach,
> essentially orthogonal to what was tried with XMPP before: *instead of an
> attempt to re-establish a stream, catching up on what was missed, we're
> trying to receive a slice of a current account state*.
> This, naturally, leads to ideas about 'inbox' that are very alike to
> Dave's proposal. True, with regular messages it is enough for us to build a
> list of recent conversations and some delivered/read marker IDs. However,
> we do not agree that unread message counter is not needed: if a client is
> doing a cold sync, it'll only have the most recent message in a
> conversation, and won't know how many are there until it loads the whole
> history up to that point. As telegram channels show, there are often many
> thousands of unread messages in some channels, and it is not a good idea to
> make clients load all those messages only to present user a 4-digit number.
> There are two more cases that we think should be accounted for: VoIP calls
> and Message Editing/Deleting/Retracting.
> First, in VoIP. We've stumbled in this just recently, when it became clear
> that if a user is called via XEP-0353, and a message with session
> initiation ends up in an archive, it can be quickly followed by subsequent
> messages, even from a same contact, which will inevitably 'bury' call in
> some unfetched unread messages and recipient device would never know that
> there was a call (or that there is still a call in progress!)
> Second, Message Editing (as we call it for now cause we didn't yet come up
> with a proper name, thought we have a pretty nicely working
> implementation). If you have 7 unread messages, 3 or them can very well be
> edits to your previously received messages, and you'll never know that.
> One more thing to consider: we don't think this will work well as a roster
> extension. Users generally want to be able to access chat history even with
> those who are already deleted from their rosters, and maybe even want to
> have separate chat threads with single contact. Great example for this and
> most obvious use is separating chats with e2e and without them into
> separate chats, like Telegram or WhatsApp do. So, instead of roster we came
> up with entity we call 'conversation', and last message, unread counter,
> message edits and VoIP calls are property of that entity.
> To make this work, a server intercepts all passing stanzas, and creates a
> slice of current user account's state, based on messages, chat markers,
> voip session messages, retract/edit messages.
> Reconnecting client tells server the timestamp of the last message
> received from the server (in our implementation all stanzas received from
> the server are timestamped by the server, and clients rely on server time
> to be correct for the needs of synchronization and message ordering), and
> server responds with a list of conversations that was updated since that
> Client initiates synchronization with sync request:
> <iq type='get' id=’id2'>
> <query xmlns='http://xabber.com/protocol/synchronization'
> Server responds with list of conversations updated since
> <iq type=’result’ to=’andrey.gagarin at redsolution.com/Xabber-web’ from=’
> redsolution.com’ id=’id1’>
> <synchronization xmlns=’http://xabber.com/protocol/synchronization’
> <conversation jid=’andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.com’
> thread=’1asd123sd’ stamp=’1556111424456980’>
> <retract version='3'>
> <unread count=’4’ after=’andrew_id_211’ />
> <displayed id=’andrey_id_210’ />
> <delivered id=’andrey_id_215’ />
> <propose xmlns='urn:xmpp:jingle-message:0'
> <description xmlns='urn:xmpp:jingle:apps:rtp:1'
> <message from=’andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.com/Xabber-web’
> to=’andrey.gagarin at redsolution.com/Xabber-web’ id=’andrew_id_214’>
> <stanza-id id=’id342’ by=’
> andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.com’ />
> <set xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/rsm'>
> <first index='0'>1556111424456980</first>
> thread - name of a thread, or, 'conversation'. Same conversation should
> have same thread, and default is nil, like, general converstion with a
> displayed - AKA 'read' by remote chat partner
> deliverred - received by remote partner's client
> unread ... after - refers to an ID of a message of a last message read by
> call - if there is an active call in progress, we pass all the propose
> stanza, so client can immediately pick up the phone.
> retract - versions of edits in this convesation
> In case of a cold start (like, first connection with new client), client
> just asks for a synchoronization without timestamp, and receives full list
> of conversations in return.
> ср, 29 мая 2019 г. в 19:28, Dave Cridland <dave at cridland.net>:
>> On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 12:27, Ненахов Андрей <
>> andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.ru> wrote:
>>> We have this (not exactly this, but for the very same purpose) mostly
>>> implemented and already working, would be happy to share the results with
>>> everyone. Currently, it's implemented on a server, client support (in Web
>>> version of Xabber) will arrive in a week or two. We also plan to release an
>>> open-source server (ejabberd fork) that will support this.
>>> Problem is, we definitely lack skills putting this as a 'XEP' formatted
>>> thing with proper description, and, what's worse, current documentation is
>>> mostly in Russian, but XMLs are in english and if someone would volunteer
>>> help us putting it in a XEP-like way, I'll muster myself to translate
>>> crucial bits into English.
>> Right - I knew you had this but had forgotten. It'd be great to collate
>> all these ideas and pick the best bits from them all.
>> Just a high-level technical sketch would be really useful.
>>> ср, 29 мая 2019 г. в 16:12, Dave Cridland <dave at cridland.net>:
>>>> Having spent a while playing with - gasp! - non-XMPP based chat
>>>> systems, I'm quite taken with the notion that some kind of Inbox might be
>>>> rather useful to us.
>>>> Currently, there is Erlang Solutions (ESL)'s Inbox, which is
>>>> essentially a duplication of MAM with some chat state tracking. It's more
>>>> than just that, of course, but the essential concept I see is that it's a
>>>> different, but largely equivalent interface to MAM, with the concept of an
>>>> unread counter added.
>>>> Instagram, on the other hand, has no roster, as such, and its Inbox
>>>> simply lists (recent) conversations, in much the same way as a client might
>>>> display them. Each record contains the conversation's participants, and the
>>>> most recent message. Things like presence subscription, in the Instagram
>>>> model, are simply the open conversations.
>>>> We do have a roster, of course, and we're putting more things into it -
>>>> MIX channels, MUC Light in ESL's case, and so on.
>>>> This makes me wonder if the right way to design an Inbox is actually to
>>>> enhance our Roster with MAM and state awareness, and make it the
>>>> conversation information hub for IM.
>>>> Let's suppose that the nature of what is "unread" is equivalent across
>>>> all clients of a particular user, to begin with.
>>>> If a client requests the inbox "since" a particular point, it would
>>>> then receive a series of records:
>>>> First, a set of N records similar to a roster item, containing a jid,
>>>> subscription state, the last archive-id received in the conversation, and
>>>> the number of unacknowledged (by some definition) messages. Our roster also
>>>> includes groups and a name; we could also include the type (MUC, MIX, or a
>>>> user), the full message, etc - these are all optimisations.
>>>> We do not, actually, need the numbers of unread messages - a client
>>>> seeing that the last archive-id isn't in its cache knows the conversation
>>>> has messages that are unread to it, at least. But if we can track message
>>>> read state, that's useful for multi-device.
>>>> Finally, an update message to indicate the current point, where things
>>>> change. I would use an archive-id again here - even if the thing causing
>>>> the update isn't an archived message at all. This allows a client to ask
>>>> for the archive either since a particular message, or since an event.
>>>> You'll note I'm not building this directly on PubSub in the XEP-0060
>>>> (or XEP-0163) sense - instead I'm proposing building this on the existing
>>>> Roster and MAM.
>>>> <iq type='get' id='some-id'>
>>>> <query xmlns='jabber:iq:roster' ver='last-archive-id'>
>>>> <inbox xmlns='urn:xmpp:inbox'><!-- Add enhanced inbox info -->
>>>> <messages/><!-- Include the entire last message? -->
>>>> <unread/><!-- Include unread count -->
>>>> I'd dearly love to return updates using <message/>, MAM-style,
>>>> actually. But let's say we stick with the roster design, the pushes look
>>>> <iq from='romeo at montague.lit' id='b2gs90j5' to='romeo at montague.lit/home'
>>>> <query xmlns='jabber:iq:roster' ver='ver42'>
>>>> <item jid='bill at shakespeare.lit' subscription='both'>
>>>> <unread count='4'/>
>>>> <stanza-id id='ver42' xmlns='...'/>
>>>> <message ...>
>>>> <body>Yeah, sure - whenever you like.</body>
>>>> Any message "counts" for updating the roster version, by dint of
>>>> unifying the namespace of stanza-id (for archive) and roster version. So
>>>> any new message arriving updates the current point of the roster as well,
>>>> and any new change in the roster changes the archive pointer similarly.
>>>> Updating the shared unread count could be by Carbonizing the
>>>> read-receipts (or similar), and using the stanza-id from that, or by an
>>>> explicit roster push. Either's good - I think the roster pushes are more
>>>> explicit, which is helpful.
>>>> I'm fully expecting some push-back here. Comments are, of course,
>>>> Standards mailing list
>>>> Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards
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>>> Andrew Nenakhov
>>> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
>>> https://redsolution.com <http://www.redsolution.com>
>>> Standards mailing list
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> Andrew Nenakhov
> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
> https://redsolution.com <http://www.redsolution.com>
CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
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