[Standards] Whitespace "ping"

Mickaël Rémond mremond at process-one.net
Tue Jun 11 12:31:51 UTC 2019


Hello,

Yes, I agree that push is the standard for battery saving.
But Guus is right as push notification is used after the server has detected that the connection was lost.
On the server, we must still detect the connection loss as fast as possible to clean-up and switch state.

Cheers,

-- 
Mickaël Rémond


> On 11 Jun 2019, at 14:19, Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I remember our then-CEO telling us that his phone "would not get warm anymore", after we changed the interval from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. That was over a decade ago though. I think that you're right in that patterns change with evolving mobile phone components.
> 
> Unless I'm mistaking, Push Notifications are one-way. As far as I know, they can't be used to tell if a client has dropped offline (and do all kinds of follow-up / cleanup actions, server sided).
> 
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 14:11, Ненахов Андрей <andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.ru <mailto:andrew.nenakhov at redsolution.ru>> wrote:
> Btw, from a mobile client developer perspective, if a server pings an app every 30 seconds, the battery drain is very high and is significantly higher than if interval is set to 2 minutes. What's interesting is that dependency is not linear: drain seems to rise sharply with intervals less than 60 seconds. I don't recall the exact details though, it was 5+ years ago since we tested it. Also, I think that in current state of affairs the way to go are push notifications, and thus the need for ping is somewhat diminished.
> 
> вт, 11 июн. 2019 г. в 17:01, Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen at gmail.com <mailto:guus.der.kinderen at gmail.com>>:
> What we need basically is a way to negotiate the interval with server
> 
> I'm not sure if this is _needed_? Without this being a requirement, much of the complexity of "making this more standard" falls away.
> 
> A server could, before determining that a connection is lost, attempt to send any IQ stanza (PING is an obvious choice, but any query will do). As the client is obliged to respond, if anything with an error, the server knows if the connection is, in fact, lost.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 11:50, Mickaël Rémond <mremond at process-one.net <mailto:mremond at process-one.net>> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The RFC 6120 mentions whitespace ping to keep the connection alive and help the server detects that the client is gone.
> I also see that there was some attempt to bring consistency in the way server handles this in XEP-0304: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0304.html <https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0304.html>
> It is rather old and today has also probably a bit of overlap with XEP-0198 Stream Management, and possibly also with XEP-0199 XMPP ping.
> I guess many client use the XEP-0198 acks, but still, XEP-0198 recommends the use of TCP level whitespace keepalive.
> Having a way to check connection from client without generating load on parsers and limiting bandwidth used is important, so whitespace keepalive are goods.
> 
> What do you think of pushing forward a way to make whitespace ping behaviour more standard?
> What we need basically is a way to negotiate the interval with server, so that client can be considered disconnected when that whitespace trafic is not receive in time.
> 
> I am not really fond of making this a new stream feature, like XEP-0304 suggest, as maybe what would make more sense is to define that feature in Stream management XEP itself (and thus could be part of the stream management negotiation)
> 
> What do you think ?
> 
> -- 
> Mickaël Rémond
> 
> 
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> 
> -- 
> Andrew Nenakhov
> CEO, Redsolution, Inc.
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