[Standards] Council Minutes 2019-09-25

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Mon Sep 30 01:02:13 UTC 2019


1) Roll Call
Present: Georg, Dave, Link, Jonas, Kev

2) Agenda Bashing
Dave apologises for not preparing an agenda - work is extremely busy right now.
Jonas mentions PRs #824 and #834, and the Authorization Tokens proto-XEP.

3a) PR #824 - XEP-0060: Add pubsub#public in Publish-Subscribe features - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/824
Kev feels this should be blocked on similar grounds to Dave's veto of PR #828.
Dave is going to vote on-list, pending the outcome of a quick AOB discussion about how to do this kind of thing.
Georg thinks 'pubsub#public' looks like a breaking change - Link suggests not, if exposed through a discoverable feature on the service (not that it does at the moment.)

Dave: [on-list]
Kev: [on-list]
Link: [on-list]
Jonas: [on-list]
Georg: [on-list]

3b) PR #834 - XEP-0410: treat remote-server-{not-found,timeout} like timeout - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/834
Link: +1
Jonas: +1 (author)
Georg: +1 (don't consider this a breaking change as it's only a client behaviour)
Dave: +1 (seems sensible)
Kev: +1

The author says this is based on a real-world issue [1].
Kev is concerned that this illustrates the brittleness of this kind of thing, and it is probably a breaking change, but doesn't see how bumping would improve interoperation over not.
Dave agrees it's all a nightmare of heuristics as a workaround for issues with MUC.

3c) Proposed XMPP Extension: Authorization Tokens - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/auth-tokens.html
Jonas: [on-list]
Georg: [on-list]
Link: [on-list]
Kev: [on-list] (default to -1; similar opinion to Dave, but want to re-read first)
Dave: -1 (against the XSF defining authentication pathways; should defer to the IETF XMPP and/or Kitten Working Groups)

Dave also thinks large amounts of this duplicate work in XEP-0399 (Client Key Support); appreciates there are differences, but thinks it would be better to work on XEP-0399.
Georg asks whether it also overlaps with XEP-0397 (Instant Stream Resumption) because of tokens - Dave thinks it does to some extent, mostly in relation to the HT-* SASL mechanism.
Jonas thinks Dave is mostly right, but would like to inspect XEP-0399 before voting.

5) Outstanding Votes
Dave doesn't think there are any [there aren't.]

6) Next Meeting
2019-10-02 1500 UTC

Dave will be attending an MLS Interim WG meeting [2] next week (will report back).

Georg mentions, regarding the MLS meeting, that EU and German regulators are looking for suggestions on how to standardise interoperation between silo IM providers, including E2EE - would love to know whether MLS can be the vehicle for that (within two years?)

7) AOB
Dave says there are a number of small additions to MUC and PubSub in particular which are more-or-less additions to an info form describing the node/room/etc - asks whether these can be handled via the Registrar, or small XEPs.
Jonas thinks the first step is to get the Registries in order; most of these things would be covered by the registries, but nobody is maintaining them. Georg similarly suggests that the first step would be to collect all of the additions and update the registries. Kev agrees this feels like a registry thing.
Dave asks if anyone is acting as Registrar - Kev suggests it should be Editor, but there's no process. Dave suggests flagging this to Board and asking them to find a volunteer - Jonas doesn't expect one will be found.
Jonas says he would need a hackathon together with Iteam to figure out the current state and how to fix it.
Dave summarises that there are two problems: a broken registry system, and nobody to act as registrar - offers to send a call-to-arms to the members list looking for volunteers.
Jonas would like to set up a meeting with Iteam to work closely on fixing this - will involve looking into the current build system and how to get it running. Kev offers to help too.

Georg mutters something about carrying AOBs from meeting to meeting.

8) Close
Thanks all.

[1] https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/issues/312
[2] https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-10

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