[Standards] Council Minutes 2020-01-22

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Tue Jan 28 18:01:18 UTC 2020


http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2020-01-22?p=h#2020-01-22-f8281d316ae396b1

1) Roll Call
Present: Zash, Dave, Jonas, Daniel, Georg

2) Agenda Bashing
Jonas asks whether there is anything beyond the lengthy agenda already posted - Daniel has an AOB, but it could be postponed if time necessitates. Jonas checks whether everyone has an extra 15 minutes for another marathon meeting - they do.

3a) Proposed XMPP Extension: Full Text Search in MAM - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/fulltext.html
Georg: [on-list]
Jonas: +1 (dead simple; I like it)
Zash: [on-list]
Dave: +1 (will almost certainly fold in MattJ's suggestions, in Experimental)
Daniel: +1 (prefer it to contain a note saying the query text must be literal, without keywords)

Pep prefers specifications to be dull and easy to understand, i.e. without fancy words.

3b) Proposed XMPP Extension: Inbox - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/inbox.html
Daniel: +1
Zash: [on-list]
Jonas: +1
Dave: +1
Georg: [on-list]

Jonas would like to note that publishing this before the Summit may be a good tactical move to further its development under XSF IPR - the author (Dave) says the intention is to have all of these in XEP form so they can be bashed about in the Summit.

3c) PR #879 - Obsolete CS-2019 - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/879
Jonas hates to be 'that guy', but points out that this needs to go via Deprecated first, as per XEP-0001.

3c i) Move CS-2019 to Deprecated
Jonas: +1
Zash: +1
Dave: +1
Daniel: +1
Georg: +1

3c ii) Move CS-2019 to Obsolete
Daniel: +1
Georg: +1
Zash: +1
Dave: +1
Jonas: +1

Zash says this was a bit tight, having entered the inbox only yesterday.

3d) XEP-0384 (OMEMO Encryption): Authorship
Jonas would like to retract this agendum, given the author of XEP-0384 (Andreas) has reacted to the PR, but further discussion is possible.

Daniel says Andreas agrees that being an inactive author doesn't make sense and suggested someone more involved should take over, e.g. Syndace; Daniel would suggest Syndace and/or Vanitasvitae. Jonas would be fine with either of those suggestions, or even Daniel. Ralph sees Daniel as an author, given his substantial changes. Daniel suggests waiting for the outcome of the OMEMO Sprint, which will be at the end of February. Dave would rather spread the workload and not burden Vanitasvitae with this on top of already leading the SIG-E2EE. Jonas says the main workload for an Experimental XEP is gatekeeping submissions, so there could be a benefit to sharing this role; either author consenting has been enough to apply a PR, so adding both would make sense - Daniel and Georg agree; Dave doesn't want to die on this hill.

Jonas says they need to be asked first anyway. Daniel thinks the important point is that Andreas agrees; and not much is likely to happen before the sprint, so we may as well wait until then. Jonas checks that everyone is fine with waiting - Georg is, but notes there were people pushing for an urgent status change of XEP-0384. Daniel says there's no need to remove the author if consent can be given by any of the other authors, especially as Andreas would like to continue providing continued input, and may also attend the sprint - Ralph says authors typically aren't removed; Dave thinks author removal is bad.

3e) PR #881 - SIG-E2EE: Only elected XSF members may act as embassadors - https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/881
Jonas points to his mail [1], but is still pretty confused how SIGs should work, and whether it should start immediately after being voted into Experimental; Zash is also confused, and thanks Jonas for the write-up.
Daniel thinks this could probably have just been merged, as it's still in the inbox, and it is a change which Council requested - Jonas thinks it would be weird to change the XEP while the vote on it is still in progress.
Jonas thinks the process should be to accept the XEP as Experimental, iron out the details, and it constitutes the SIG once it becomes Active - Dave concurs, particularly as the bar for entry into Experimental has historically been very low - Jonas has an epiphany.

Voting on SIG-E2EE - https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sige2ee.html
Zash: +1
Jonas: +1
Dave: +1 (again)
Daniel: +1
Georg: +1 (again)
Zash: +1 (again)

Dave would appreciate input from Board on the changed bullet point (concerning external representation) - Ralph agrees with Dave's hesitance, and will discuss it with Board tomorrow.

4) Outstanding Votes
Jonas points to the amazing, miraculously up-to-date, spreadsheet [2].

5) Date of Next
Jonas isn't sure if next week will work with various people travelling - Georg, Jonas, and Zash will be available; Daniel will be able to make it for exactly 26 minutes, if the train is punctual and has wifi; Dave will also be on a train, but will join if possible. Jonas thinks it's worth a shot.

2020-01-29 1600 UTC

6a) AOB i
Through talking with Andreas, Daniel thinks the current process for deferring is confusing, since it's not automated and seems to be applied randomly; the obvious solution is to automate it, or at least include an expiry date in the XEPs - Editor thanks Daniel for the reminder to run the deferrals along with the weekly XEP sweep.

Pep would just get rid of Deferred - if its goal is to make people aware that an XEP hasn't been edited for some time, there is already a date at the top of the document. Dave thinks Deferred is useful because it leaves Experimental as a list of actively-worked-on XEPs.

6b) AOB ii
Dave notes there are a bunch of XEPs in Experimental (and Deferred) which could be candidates for a Last Call and advancement - should identify a few and coordinate with authors; for example, XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) is Deferred. Jonas had proposed something similar last term, but it didn't get anywhere; also considers sending a call to the list for people to suggest XEPs, even if they're not the authors.

Jonas sends the mail [3].

6c) AOB iii
Georg had a bunch of AOBs he's been carrying around since last year, but they won't fit into five minutes. Tradition dictates they are mentioned each week and moved to the next.

7) Close
Jonas apologizes for the late start, and thanks everyone; everyone thanks Jonas.
Jonas thanks Tedd for continuously delivering high-quality minutes for quite some time now.

Pep suggests checking through the Compliance Suites XEPs first.
Zash wonders why the Compliance Suites can point to before-Draft XEPs.


[1] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-January/036895.html
[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ANu9KGmNf2r-qpLYqF7NdJTtqA1GIu55rf2deKbM0GA
[3] https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2020-January/036912.html

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