[Standards] Council Minutes 2020-03-18

Tedd Sterr teddsterr at outlook.com
Wed Mar 25 16:07:43 UTC 2020


1) Roll Call
Present: Daniel, Georg, Jonas, Zash
Apologies: Dave

2) Agenda Bashing
Nothing to add.

3) Editor's Update
* ProtoXEP: Reminders
* Expired calls: CFE on XEP-0184
* Calls in progress: None

4a) Advance XEP-0184 (Message Delivery Receipts) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0184.html
Georg considers some of the feedback to be 'very important' - Jonas agrees.
Daniel is torn - it does what it's supposed to do, and is widely deployed, but has fallen behind the times.
Zash thinks it's mostly fine, but some clarification never hurts.
Georg is pretty sure the original authors are very busy, so it may be necessary to re-assign or find a Shepherd; suggests two potential ways forward: editorial clean-up and modernization without bumping, or 'the crazy multi-ACK namespace bump' - though Georg lacks the time to honestly promise to step up to do the first option. Daniel is against the latter option. Jonas is also against the latter, and would rather bump XEP-0333 (Chat Markers) by mutating it to do multi-message ACKs - Georg thinks this would be rather weird, and it would be much more straightforward to add a new version to XEP-0184 (Message Delivery Receipts) plus server-side mux/demux compatibility.
Georg would like to do the 0184 editing, but lacks the time, so if somebody wearing a fancy hat could remind him periodically, this might happen in a reasonable time-frame.
The Editor will ping the authors, and then nag Georg if that doesn't work.

Zash: [on-list] (will have to re-read that thread)
Georg: -1 (to advance as-is)
Daniel: -1 (suggest some minor clean-ups and then advance)
Jonas: [on-list] (for now)
Dave: [pending]

4b) Last Call: XEP-0280 (Message Carbons) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html
Daniel doesn't expect this to yield different results to the last time. Jonas doesn't think 0280 should be modified any more, and efforts should focus on XEP-0409 (IM Routing-NG).
Being the last one to touch it, Georg was told that "it contains payload elements typically used in IM" is not a strict definition of applicable payloads, and thus not implementable, also that there are still not enough implementations of 'urn:xmpp:carbons:rules:0'. Zash thinks XEP-0226 (Message Stanza Profiles) could do with an update, and is meant to have the 'payload elements' definition.
Georg thinks the lessons learnt from 0280 and 0313 (Message Archive Management) are very important for the transition to 0409 - Jonas concurs.

Jonas: +1
Georg: +1
Zash: +1
Daniel: +0
Dave: [pending]

4c) Last Call: XEP-0357 (Push Notifications) - https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0357.html
Jonas thinks many people will have something something to say about this - Georg has reminded people to fix the XEP, but to no avail - Jonas thinks useful and specific on-list feedback would still be good.

Jonas: +1
Georg: +1 (hope it won't result in a pointless change-less -1 afterwards)
Daniel: +1
Zash: +1
Dave: [pending]

5) Outstanding Votes
Daniel votes +1 on advancing XEP-0402 (PEP Native Bookmarks).

6) Date of next
2020-03-25 1600 UTC

[Note: this remains one hour 'later' for those currently in DST, but will 'catch up' on the 29th.]

7) AOB
Georg asks the people voting less-than-one to the 0280 LC to elaborate on their reasoning, so it can be improved and moved forward. Daniel thinks that people see it as a dead-end, problematic XEP that hasn't changed much since last time - Georg doesn't see a viable (short-term) replacement, as 0409 will require a compatibility mode which will ultimately be the Carbon+MAM rules.
Daniel wonders what can be done with XEPs which are known to be imperfect, but are currently the best available solution.
Zash changes his vote on 0280 to +1 (noted in-line, above). Georg asks Zash to update 0226 - Zash would rather have simple, general rules that don't need to change too often, otherwise rolling out updates becomes painful; Georg points out that simple, general rules weren't defined when multi-device support was needed - Zash points out that some XEPs will eventually become outdated.

8) Close
Thanks all and everyone.

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