[Standards] XEP-0060: order of items

Goffi goffi at goffi.org
Wed Nov 10 09:39:10 UTC 2021


Le mardi 9 novembre 2021, 17:11:52 CET Jonas Schäfer a écrit :
> On Samstag, 6. November 2021 15:13:36 CET Goffi wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I've proposed a PR for XEP-0060 to explicitely indicate that items are
> > returned in chronological order: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1124[1]
> > .
> > 
> > This was not said in text and the only indicators were examples.
> > Chronological order seems logical to me for a generic mechanism (because
> > it's generic, there is no reason that we would want latest items first),
> > and it is coherent with examples (with examples https://
> > xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#example-79[2] and
> > https://xmpp.org/extensions/ xep-0060.html#example-80[3] we clearly see
> > that items are in chronological order).
> > 
> > Making this explicit will avoid confusion, and ordering issues between
> > clients.
> 
> I am confused. Isn't ordering the reason for XEP-0413? Retrofitting ordering
> requirements into XEP-0060 seems way too breaking for me. It would be more
> sensible to advocate implementations adopting '413 (even if they only
> support the chronological output)
> 
> kind regards,
> Jonas

The goal of XEP-0413 is to be able to change ordering, but I would expect XEP-0060 to 
have a default ordering (what would be the sense to have "most recent items" as in 
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent[1] without 
ordering?). This PR is just saying in text what is shown in examples (see example 79 and 
example 80).

Also implementing XEP-0413 imply to implement "creation" and "modification" order in 
both directions, some implementations may want to keep it simpler.

The issue there is that server/client devs are making asumptions, resulting in bug report 
such as the one I've got at https://www.goffi.org/tickets/view/405[2] .

It should be spelled out clearly how items are returned (even if unordered, bug again I 
don't think that it's a good idea to have unordered items by default on pubsub).

King regards
Goffi


--------
[1] https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#subscriber-retrieve-requestrecent
[2] https://www.goffi.org/tickets/view/405
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