[Standards] XEP-0060: order of items

Holger WeiƟ holger at zedat.fu-berlin.de
Wed Nov 10 14:26:55 UTC 2021

* Goffi <goffi at goffi.org> [2021-11-10 10:39]:
> It should be spelled out clearly how items are returned (even if 
> unordered, bug again I don't think that it's a good idea to have 
> unordered items by default on pubsub).

Updating the spec won't update implementations, so unless you also add a 
new '60 feature that servers can announce, the client still can't make 
assumptions regarding the ordering, no?

And if solving this problem involves touching both client and server 
implementations anyway, can't we take the chance and move PubSub users 
towards RSM, in order to avoid redundant mechanisms for retrieving item 
sets?  I.e., keep '60 as-is, except for referring to '59 + '413, and 
update '413 to be a plain '59 extension?

> Also implementing XEP-0413 imply to implement "creation" and 
> "modification" order in both directions, some implementations may want 
> to keep it simpler.

Maybe have the server announce supported order critera?  I.e., something 
along the lines of:

  urn:xmpp:order-by:1 at http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#creation
  urn:xmpp:order-by:1 at http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#modification

In theory, it might even be cleaner to specify order criteria in 
'60/'313/whatever is using '413?  So '413 would end up being really 
generic, without specifying anything PubSub/MAM-specific?  (And maybe 
the <order/> element could become a child of the RSM <set/> element?)


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