12 Feb
2025
12 Feb
'25
3:29 p.m.
Hi MSavoritias,
I have read all you (and others) wrote in the last couple of days on
this topic and the CoC in general, and think I understand your point of
view. I just have a different perspective and I think it is ok if we do
not agree on our world views.
The role of the XSF is not to be involved in the societal debate on
which people or service are "ok" or "evil" or anything in between. Its
role is to facilitate the work on creating open standards for real time
communication. Our CoC is about the people acting in our venues (mailing
lists, (group) chats, events) and individuals when they are acting as
representatives of the XSF (Section 4). It does not apply to anyone or
anywhere (physical or virtual) else.
I believe that by using X (or any other service), neither the XSF nor I
am _therefore_ associated with, or complicit in the actions of, other
individuals (owners or participants) therein. I do not appreciate being
made suspect or labeled guilty by association. It would also not be
acceptable as per the same CoC.
Instead, I prefer that the XSF retains it scope and does not change into
an organization where everyone is required to agree on all of their
(moral) convictions.
--
ralphm
On 12/02/2025 13.27, MSavoritias wrote:
Sorry seems i sent this privately instead of list for some reason. I
apologize.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the platforms you mention:
- Do not have an owner that is a nazi and does nazi salutes on
national television
- Have adequate moderation so that conspiracy theories, racism and
anti-semetism don't spread.
So this argument sounds to me like it misses the point of why people
want to leave Twiiter.
I urge Trung, Ralph, you and the whole XSF membership really to think
on that and also read
https://aftermath.site/god-is-a-geek-calvin-robinson-nazi-salute-elon-musk
Which says how the entire writing team of a news site quit their job
because the owner did also a nazi salute on national television. And
reflect why don't we follow the same example and stop associating with
platforms and people who are fine with nazis.
Let me also point out (I become a broken record a bit I know) that our
CoC is explicitly against racism and also implicitly against
transphobia that Twitter doesn't seem to care about
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0458.html#pick-your-words
So I also urge the XMPP membership to consider (and speak up please :)
) about following our own CoC and principles.
MSavoritias
E.M. kirjoitti 10.2.2025 klo 22.35:
> Hello all,
>
> Thank ypu for the input. I have been reading the entire discussion and summarized
as:
>
> * a majority in this thread advocates to leave the platform for multiple reasons
> * we should not delete the account due to control and archive
>
> I would like to add that if we leave the platform for political reasons, we will in
my opinion also need to abandon the use of for example LinkedIn, Google Summer of Code,
GitHub and YouTube. I think such a political position does also not allow other certain
activities.
>
> That is not a good step in my opinion.
>
> In the end I will not take the decision here and make this to at least board or a
member vote.
>
> Last but not least I also critizise the discussion and tone around this topic. This
got worse in recent years and I am very sick of many people not being able to reflect
their own behavior, their own media consumption while blaming others where they can.
>
> Cheers,
> Eddie
>
> 5 feb 2025 14:16:15 Ralph Meijer<ralphm(a)ik.nu>nu>:
>
>> On 03/02/2025 17.33, Jonas Schäfer wrote:
>>> On Samstag, 25. Januar 2025 22:07:16 MEZ Goffi wrote:
>>>> I'm not even in favor of maintaining an account as the archive
can't be
>>>> consulted without registration. Instead, any tool to dump the archive
should
>>>> be used, and we could display it anywhere.
>>> But should we keep it in order to avoid someone else registering the same
name
>>> and use it for bad purposes?
>>>
>>> I am sure we can't control all places where this is linked as the
XSF's
>>> Twitter account.
>> Yes.
>>
>> In my opinion, removing past posts from X (whether we keep the account or not to
prevent squatting) does not serve a clear purpose. Those who do not want to be there will
not look there. I appreciate that people in our community may have stopped using X for
whatever reason. Individual posts remain available without logging in, but I agree that
not being able to see all of our posts in one view is regrettable.
>>
>> However, I personally remain a user of X as one of many sources of information
and a way to communicate with other users (still) there. Removing past information there
(I guess for any account), including its original context and responses, is a significant
loss to me. I am sure I am not alone in this.
>>
>> I have been surprised and disappointed by the labeling of people using certain
social networks in this thread. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but that does
not mean that others have to agree. If we want to be a truly open organization, this has
to include difference of opinion and choice.
>>
>> Separate from my personal use of X or my private (!) opinion on particular
individuals, I do not think the XSF should take a stance in that debate. Staying there
does not mean that the XSF, its members, or the XMPP community in general, somehow
validates other people's (mis)behavior there. It is not up to the XSF to arbitrate
which platforms are "ok" and which are not.
>>
>> As I said before, if there is utility in letting people in other circles (than
those who want nothing to do with X) know about what we do, then we should continue to
post on X (too). I personally think there is. If none of the current individual Comms team
members want to be part of that, we can figure that out separately. This might also be a
good time to point out that we have not posted to X since 9 November 2024.
>>
>> Just like last week, I will happily discuss my personal opinions over a beverage.
Or something else entirely.
>>
>> --
>> ralphm