R: [Foundation] On a coherent compliance, trademark and IPR
stpeter at jabber.org
Wed Oct 16 11:04:15 CDT 2002
I agree with Iain -- more discussion is better than less. We can always
direct this energy onto the compliance list. Speaking of which, does it
exist yet? If not, shall I set it up?
Jabber Software Foundation
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Iain Shigeoka wrote:
> Sorry, I guess I wasn't being clear. I didn't intend for this discussion to
> be "official" in any way. This is more like a town meeting for the community
> to toss in their 2 cents in an informal, hopefully heated debate. The board
> and council should continue their own work. I hope of course that our
> thoughts might influence your work but it doesn't need to have any direct
> We're just airing our ideas. If any gains significant weight and is not
> being taken up/addressed by the council/board, then we'll contact our
> elected officials and bitch and moan. :)
> On 10/10/02 9:10 AM, "bauer at michaelbauer.com" <bauer at michaelbauer.com>
> > Yes, Iain, not that I don't appreciate your points either, but we've
> > already outlined a strategy and an approach for resolving each of these
> > issues. Marco asked for JINC to clarify their TM policy. Tony Bamonti is
> > going to get back to us on this. Jer is heading up the Compliance
> > program. Overlap between both of those issues is being addressed by the
> > Marketing committee (that you, me, and others are discussing tomorrow).
> > The IP issues are being addressed in a policy statement that is
> > currently waiting legal review. We have dates for doing these things in
> > the Minutes, I believe.
> > Have we missed something?
> > On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, ocrampal wrote:
> >> Iain,
> >> I appreciate your points (I tend to agree with them).
> >> Let me just say that these points have been covered during the first meeting
> >> of the JSF Board:
> >> http://www.jabber.org/board/meetings/minutes-2002-09-24.php
> >> As a Board Member (not affiliated to JINC), I personally proposed to the
> >> Board to include in the resolutions (point 5) that JINC should clearly state
> >> their position about the Trademark.
> >> During the Board meeting the compliance issues was also covered and a
> >> Compliance Committee was set-up chaired by Jer; we have called for
> >> participant to the group.
> >> I do not mean to kill the discussion you started in any way, I just wanted
> >> to point out that there is a framework for this discussion already and that
> >> the discussion is already very open.
> >> We should all participate in the Marketing and Compliance Committee and let
> >> all hear our voice; I see an eventual departure from using Jabber as a name
> >> a very severe drawback for our community and I am working hard to avoid it!
> >> Marco Palombi
> >> Tipic Inc.
> >> http://www.tipic.com
> >> e-mail & Jabber: ocrampal at tipic.com
> >> blog: http://email@example.com
> >>> One of the stickier and longer running unresolved issues on the Jabber
> >>> standards/JSF docket has been the combined issues of "Jabber compliance",
> >>> the Jabber trademark (TM), and intellectual property (IP). IMO,
> >>> part of the
> >>> difficulty is they have a combined business and technical aspect. Although
> >>> the council and board are supposed to help JSF work these issues out, I
> >>> think that we as a community must provide guidance on creating an overall
> >>> strategy or set of goals that meets our needs.
> >>> There's no real good place to start so I'll arbitrarily suggest
> >>> we begin by
> >>> tackling TM, then compliance, and finally IP. So I'm going to throw out a
> >>> strawman set of goals and approach and then everyone can poke holes in it
> >>> and hopefully move the discussion forward.
> >>> Goals
> >>> 1) Allow zero-cost, open use of the Jabber protocol
> >>> 2) Ensure interoperability
> >>> 3) Foster an active developer and user community
> >>> 4) Encourage evolution and use of Jabber outside the realm of IM
> >>> 5) Encourage commercial use of Jabber (controversial?)
> >>> Strategy
> >>> 1) Resolve TM issue. Have Jinc commit to the TM either being used
> >>> generically and freely by the community or not. If Jinc decides
> >>> to keep the
> >>> Jabber TM, the JSF should select a new TM to describe the protocol (e.g.
> >>> XMPP). Whatever we come up with, let's call it the TM. The TM
> >>> describes the
> >>> technology and standards.
> >>> 2) Define Jabber compliance. This ties into the IETF work being
> >>> done and all
> >>> the JEPs underway. Peter has some really great ideas on XMPP vs. Jabber
> >>> (http://www.saint-andre.com/jabber/xmpp+jabber.html) and this might play
> >>> well into the JabberEnvironments ideas by Adam Theo
> >>> (http://www.theoretic.com/?Jabber_2.0). Part of the standards
> >>> process should
> >>> define compliance tests. Compliant implementations may use the TM in
> >>> literature, and apply the JabberPowered TM and logo. JSF certifies
> >>> compliance and enforces TMs.
> >>> 3) Secure unencumbered use of IP from Jinc as needed. The IETF effort will
> >>> require IP issues to be resolved so I think most of this will
> >>> naturally fall
> >>> out from the IETF process.
> >>> Schedule
> >>> I think its important that we set some milestones in order to make sure
> >>> things proceed on some reasonable timeline. Here we want to be reasonable
> >>> but not pushovers.
> >>> 1) Jan 2003 - Jinc commits to TM decision. If they don't commit, the
> >>> community must move forward by abandoning Jabber and selecting a
> >>> new TM. The
> >>> name can't be a roadblock to progress. Is this a reasonable amount of time
> >>> for Jinc to make a decision?
> >>> 2) ?? - coordinate compliance tests and JabberPowered
> >>> "certification" to be
> >>> ready when the IETF work completes. As I understand, its on a pretty fast
> >>> track so it should be sooner rather than later.
> >>> Thoughts? I've got my fire suit ready, flame on!
> >>> -iain
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