[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0186 (Invisible Command)

Peter Saint-Andre stpeter at stpeter.im
Mon Sep 10 20:59:48 UTC 2007

Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>> Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>>>>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>>>> Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>>>>>>> Isn't this spec, for example, just special casing
>>>>>>> presence-out:deny ?
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>> <iq type='set' id='invisible'>
>>>>>>> <query xmlns='jabber:iq:privacy'>
>>>>>>>   <list name='invisible-all'>
>>>>>>>     <item action='deny' order='1'>
>>>>>>>       <presence-out/>
>>>>>>>     </item>
>>>>>>>   </list>
>>>>>>> </query>
>>>>>>> </iq>
>>>>>>> "
>>>>>> Yes it is. But then you need access to a server and client that
>>>>>> support
>>>>>> privacy lists. And you need to fiddle with your privacy lists all the
>>>>>> time to add and subtract invisibility, which it seems to me
>>>>>> introduces
>>>>>> the possibility of messing up the definitions (not to mention the
>>>>>> bandwidth usage). A small, focused command seems more useful to me.
>>>>> In our client for example, there is a 'invisible to all' list which
>>>>> just
>>>>> does the above - invisibility actually gets shown in the ui as
>>>>> though it
>>>>> was a presence status.
>>>> When the user chooses "invisible to all", does that overrride all the
>>>> other rules already defined (e.g., don't allow any communications with
>>>> UserX)? I think that in order to do this right, you'd need to modify
>>>> the
>>>> active rule to now include invisibility, not define a standalone rule
>>>> for it.
>>>> Peter
>>> Just changes the active list entirely, not edit the current list - that
>>> would be too cumbersome.
>> Which is precisely my objection.
>> My active list has a rule that blocks a spammer from communicating with
>> me. I go invisible by changing the active list. Now the spammer's junk
>> gets through.
>> Doesn't that seem sub-optimal?
>> Peter
> You can always edit and come up with a custom list, and change what is
> shown in the drop down menu (i guess) - but the off-the-shelf list does
> invisible to all only.

Right. And that seems problematic. All your spam protection (etc.) goes
out the window!

Perhaps layered privacy lists are the answer here...


Peter Saint-Andre

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