24 Feb
2026
24 Feb
'26
2:50 p.m.
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for relocating
the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These proposals are intended as
lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of how such a transition could work.
They are not intended to define the eventual legal form, and no decisions
have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were
created on my own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision
of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a
complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the
community explore possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss
potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe
even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure
that any future decision is well-informed, practical, and aligned with the
needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
24 Feb
24 Feb
3:09 p.m.
Thanks for doing all of this research, Guus!
I do like how the Vereniging mirrors the XSF structures.
- Presumably it does so more than the existing US 501(c)(3) rules currently
do?
- We'd wanna be sure we'll get the tax-exempt status before progressing too
far?
- Do you know if it requires that we have 1+ representatives physically in
NL?
I don't expect you to have all of these answers, or to learn enough to
answer them all either. Just wanted to blurt out my thoughts.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These proposals are
intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of how such a transition
could work. They are not intended to define the eventual legal form, and no
decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were
created on my own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision
of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a
complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the
community explore possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss
potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe
even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure
that any future decision is well-informed, practical, and aligned with the
needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
3:35 p.m.
Hi Dan,
Before drilling down: let's not necessarily get bogged down in the details
of these two Dutch-based examples. I prepared them mainly because, as a
Dutch citizen, the information on these particular forms was most readily
accessible to me. There are certainly other forms, potentially just as
suitable or even better, that we could consider. I am very open to
discussing such alternatives.
As for your questions on the two Dutch-based proposals (obviously IANAL):
- The Dutch Vereniging is more of a 'structure' definition than U.S.
501(c)(3) rules, that focus mostly on tax-exemption and limiting private
benefit. So yes, a Vereniging in that sense more closely reflects the
existing XSF structures as defined in the bylaws.
- I don't know if tax-exempt status is/should be a requirement. It is
easy to see the theoretical benefit, but I'm not sure if we have been
benefiting from this in practice. In Dutch legalise, you typically need an
ANBI designation if you want donations to be tax-deductible. The ANBI
approval process is usually straightforward if your purpose clearly serves
the public benefit and your governance and financial reporting meet the
requirements, but it's not automatic.
- I think that there's no strict requirement that board members live in
the Netherlands. However, for practical purposes, the Dutch Chamber of
Commerce may require a registered address in the Netherlands for the
organization itself (not necessarily for each board member). Also, in
previous experience, when you want to register for things like a bank
account, additional regulation kicks in...
Kind regards,
Guus
On Tue, Feb 24, 2026 at 3:09 PM Dan Caseley <dan(a)caseley.me.uk> wrote:
Thanks for doing all of this research, Guus!
I do like how the Vereniging mirrors the XSF structures.
- Presumably it does so more than the existing US 501(c)(3) rules
currently do?
- We'd wanna be sure we'll get the tax-exempt status before progressing
too far?
- Do you know if it requires that we have 1+ representatives physically in
NL?
I don't expect you to have all of these answers, or to learn enough to
answer them all either. Just wanted to blurt out my thoughts.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen <
guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These proposals are
intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of how such a transition
could work. They are not intended to define the eventual legal form, and no
decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were
created on my own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision
of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a
complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the
community explore possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss
potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe
even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure
that any future decision is well-informed, practical, and aligned with the
needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
4:31 p.m.
One thing that I couldn't see covered, but has been in previous
explorations of this nature - would this (and similar options) require our
bylaws to be in some non-English language?
While I appreciate that many of us don't speak/read English natively, it is
nevertheless the language most of us can read the most (if that makes
sense). If the legal form were in Dutch, then much as I appreciate the
value of encryption...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These proposals are
intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of how such a transition
could work. They are not intended to define the eventual legal form, and no
decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were
created on my own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision
of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a
complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the
community explore possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss
potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe
even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure
that any future decision is well-informed, practical, and aligned with the
needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
6:09 p.m.
Hi,
Dutch law requires bylaws to be in Dutch. You can have the notary draft
them bilingually (e.g. also in English) for an additional fee, but the
legal interpretation will always be using the Dutch language version.
This is mostly because it is sometimes hard to translate Dutch legal
terms exactly.
--
ralphm
On 24/02/2026 16.31, Dave Cridland wrote:
One thing that I couldn't see covered, but has
been in previous
explorations of this nature - would this (and similar options) require
our bylaws to be in some non-English language?
While I appreciate that many of us don't speak/read English natively,
it is nevertheless the language most of us can read the most (if that
makes sense). If the legal form were in Dutch, then much as I
appreciate the value of encryption...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen
<guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These
proposals are intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of
how such a transition could work. They are not intended to define
the eventual legal form, and no decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these
proposals were created on my own accord and do not reflect any
shared opinion or decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and
assume a complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are
meant to help the community explore possibilities, understand
trade-offs, and discuss potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback -
maybe even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will
help ensure that any future decision is well-informed, practical,
and aligned with the needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
6:25 p.m.
Hi,
at least we have several member speaking Dutch. Although I am not a
native speaker of Dutch, I have no problems to understand also legal texts.
eevvoor / yvo
On 2/24/26 7:09 PM, Ralph Meijer wrote:
Hi,
Dutch law requires bylaws to be in Dutch. You can have the notary draft
them bilingually (e.g. also in English) for an additional fee, but the
legal interpretation will always be using the Dutch language version.
This is mostly because it is sometimes hard to translate Dutch legal
terms exactly.
--
ralphm
On 24/02/2026 16.31, Dave Cridland wrote:
One thing that I couldn't see covered, but
has been in previous
explorations of this nature - would this (and similar options) require
our bylaws to be in some non-English language?
While I appreciate that many of us don't speak/read English natively,
it is nevertheless the language most of us can read the most (if that
makes sense). If the legal form were in Dutch, then much as I
appreciate the value of encryption...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen
<guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These
proposals are intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of
how such a transition could work. They are not intended to define
the eventual legal form, and no decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these
proposals were created on my own accord and do not reflect any
shared opinion or decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and
assume a complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are
meant to help the community explore possibilities, understand
trade-offs, and discuss potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/
XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback -
maybe even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will
help ensure that any future decision is well-informed, practical,
and aligned with the needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
6:45 p.m.
I need to clarify this a bit, because already the language forms a
problem of interpretation. The Articles of Association (in Dutch
"Statuten") must be in Dutch, but can also have a foreign language
translation that is officially notarized as such. Then, you can have
Bylaws (in Dutch "Huishoudelijk Reglement") that further define how the
entity organizes itself. You don't need a notary for changing these, but
you do need to specify in your Statuten how this document functions and
how it can be changed. What we currently have in our Bylaws would have
to be split between the two.
How you make the split depends on how flexible you want to be (without
incurring notary costs), but some things *must be* in the Statuten,
including how the board is appointed and what members and their
obligations are. But for example how the XMPP Council is elected and
functions can be in the HR.
That brings me to another thing that needs to be sorted: our Officers.
We would need to figure out if we want those to be part of the Board
proper or that they are proxies with power of attorney. The default in a
Vereniging is that the Board is collectively executive and an Executive
Director that is not part of the Board is typically a salaried employee
(CEO). I'm sure that there are more practical matters when we get to the
details.
--
ralphm
On 24/02/2026 18.09, Ralph Meijer wrote:
Hi,
Dutch law requires bylaws to be in Dutch. You can have the notary
draft them bilingually (e.g. also in English) for an additional fee,
but the legal interpretation will always be using the Dutch language
version. This is mostly because it is sometimes hard to translate
Dutch legal terms exactly.
--
ralphm
On 24/02/2026 16.31, Dave Cridland wrote:
One thing that I couldn't see covered, but
has been in previous
explorations of this nature - would this (and similar options)
require our bylaws to be in some non-English language?
While I appreciate that many of us don't speak/read English natively,
it is nevertheless the language most of us can read the most (if that
makes sense). If the legal form were in Dutch, then much as I
appreciate the value of encryption...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 at 13:51, Guus der Kinderen
<guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the XSF's legal home to the European Union. These
proposals are intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of
how such a transition could work. They are not intended to define
the eventual legal form, and no decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these
proposals were created on my own accord and do not reflect any
shared opinion or decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and
assume a complete migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are
meant to help the community explore possibilities, understand
trade-offs, and discuss potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback -
maybe even add alternative proposals of your own. Your input will
help ensure that any future decision is well-informed, practical,
and aligned with the needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
27 Feb
27 Feb
5:26 p.m.
Dear all,
I propose to create the legal structure in France, there is "Association loi de
1901" = "Association à but non lucratif", some links:
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_de_la_loi_1901
-
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif#Associati…
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization
Important: A very long time ago, when I have searched a company to host XSF data (before
the server crashes) and when I specify that it is US organization, all talks have stopped.
I had informed Peter Saint-Andre about this problem.
Good to see that now, in 2026, there is a progress about this situation.
Regards,
BOCQUET Ludovic
________________________________________
From: Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2026 1:50 PM
To: XSF Members
Subject: [Members] XSF EU Legal Structure: Example Proposals
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for relocating the XSF's
legal home to the European Union. These proposals are intended as lightweight, pragmatic
illustrations of how such a transition could work. They are not intended to define the
eventual legal form, and no decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were created on my
own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a complete
migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the community explore
possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe even add
alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure that any future decision is
well-informed, practical, and aligned with the needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
6:09 p.m.
Libervia is a French nonprofit organization, so we have the expertise
with goffi for that. My French is definitely not good enough for legal
texts. Dutch is convenient for me.
On 2/27/26 6:26 PM, Ludovic BOCQUET wrote:
Dear all,
I propose to create the legal structure in France, there is "Association loi de
1901" = "Association à but non lucratif", some links:
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_de_la_loi_1901
-
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif#Associati…
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization
Important: A very long time ago, when I have searched a company to host XSF data (before
the server crashes) and when I specify that it is US organization, all talks have stopped.
I had informed Peter Saint-Andre about this problem.
Good to see that now, in 2026, there is a progress about this situation.
Regards,
BOCQUET Ludovic
________________________________________
From: Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2026 1:50 PM
To: XSF Members
Subject: [Members] XSF EU Legal Structure: Example Proposals
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for relocating the XSF's
legal home to the European Union. These proposals are intended as lightweight, pragmatic
illustrations of how such a transition could work. They are not intended to define the
eventual legal form, and no decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals were created on my
own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a complete
migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the community explore
possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe even add
alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure that any future decision is
well-informed, practical, and aligned with the needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
9:17 p.m.
Hello everyone,
Thank you for your thoughtful participation in the discussion. It's
encouraging to see new ideas being shared.
I want to emphasize the goal that started this conversation: to
develop *lightweight,
practical proposals* that can be evaluated and acted on. Suggestions that
only name a legal form or outline a general idea don't provide enough
detail for the community to assess their implications.
To be most useful, proposals should give enough information for members to
understand governance, membership, operational aspects, and any practical
impacts in the context of the XSF. A simple structure can help, for example:
- Key characteristics - Decision-making, membership roles, operational
aspects, or other notable features.
- Comparison to current structure - Optional notes on differences from
our existing model.
- Practical considerations - Language requirements, registration steps,
or other operational impacts.
Including context, examples, or references makes it easier for the
community to review and compare options effectively.
Thank you again for contributing your ideas. Please add them to the wiki
(at https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal ) . By
keeping them clear and structured, we can ensure the discussion is
productive and that each option can be properly considered.
Kind regards,
Guus
On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 6:10 PM eevvoor via Members <members(a)xmpp.org>
wrote:
Libervia is a French nonprofit organization, so we
have the expertise
with goffi for that. My French is definitely not good enough for legal
texts. Dutch is convenient for me.
On 2/27/26 6:26 PM, Ludovic BOCQUET wrote:
Dear all,
I propose to create the legal structure in France, there is "Association
loi
de 1901" = "Association à but non lucratif", some links:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif#Associati…
-
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_%C3%A0_but_non_lucratif
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization
Important: A very long time ago, when I have searched a company to host
XSF data
(before the server crashes) and when I specify that it is US
organization, all talks have stopped. I had informed Peter Saint-Andre
about this problem.
Good to see that now, in 2026, there is a progress about this situation.
Regards,
BOCQUET Ludovic
________________________________________
From: Guus der Kinderen <guus.der.kinderen(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2026 1:50 PM
To: XSF Members
Subject: [Members] XSF EU Legal Structure: Example Proposals
Dear XSF community,
Documentation has been prepared outlining example approaches for
relocating the
XSF's legal home to the European Union. These proposals are
intended as lightweight, pragmatic illustrations of how such a transition
could work. They are not intended to define the eventual legal form, and no
decisions have been made.
Please note: although I am currently a Board member, these proposals
were created
on my own accord and do not reflect any shared opinion or
decision of the XSF Board.
Currently, the examples focus on structures under Dutch law and assume a
complete
migration from the U.S. to the EU. They are meant to help the
community explore possibilities, understand trade-offs, and discuss
potential paths forward.
The proposals can be found at:
https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_EU_Legal_Transition_Proposal
Please review these examples, ask questions, and share feedback - maybe
even add
alternative proposals of your own. Your input will help ensure
that any future decision is well-informed, practical, and aligned with the
needs of the XSF community.
Kind regards,
Guus
3
days inactive
6
days old
9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Dan Caseley -
Dave Cridland -
eevvoor -
Guus der Kinderen -
Ludovic BOCQUET -
Ralph Meijer