IOT

iot@xmpp.org

138 discussions

by Peter Waher

Hello "Snyggt svar" (Swedish) = "+1" or "LIKE" :) Too many languages, too few brain cells. Sincerely, Peter Waher From: Peter Waher Sent: den 13 mars 2013 14:01 To: 'XMPP in the Internet of Things' Subject: RE: [IOT] (no subject) Snyggt svar :) From: Joachim Lindborg [mailto:joachim.lindborg@sust.se] Sent: den 13 mars 2013 13:44 To: XMPP in the Internet of Things; XMPP Standards Subject: Re: [IOT] (no subject) Thank you Thomas for your intrest We have gone through the SOX proposal before and looked into several other solutions finding them not so general in the abstraction as we would like them to be to handle different use cases such as smart metering and business model spanning smart grid applications The Andrew initiative is very good and can infact be more or less realised in our proposed solutions. The coming XEP's will show how to do provisioning and get access rights to field's on nodes. Which has similarities to your UUID_meta UUID_data JID proposals for accessrights but is more general. Please let us elaborate more on the issues as we move forward /Joachim 2013/3/13 Thomas Nichols <tnichols(a)enernoc.com<mailto:tnichols@enernoc.com>> Hi Joachim, Do these standards draw from or build upon the Sensors Over XMPP (SOX) proposal put forth by the Sensor Andrew team at CMU? http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html http://sensor.andrew.cmu.edu/ From: Joachim Lindborg <joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se<mailto:joachim.lindborg@sust.se><mailto:joachim.lindborg@sust.se<mailto:joachim.lindborg@sust.se>>> Reply-To: XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot(a)xmpp.org<mailto:iot@xmpp.org><mailto:iot@xmpp.org<mailto:iot@xmpp.org>>> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:40 PM To: XMPP Standards <standards(a)xmpp.org<mailto:standards@xmpp.org><mailto:standards@xmpp.org<mailto:standards@xmpp.org>>>, XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot(a)xmpp.org<mailto:iot@xmpp.org><mailto:iot@xmpp.org<mailto:iot@xmpp.org>>> Subject: [IOT] (no subject) As noted we have posted 2 XEP proposals to the council. http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensor-data.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/exi.html This is a serie of in total 11 XEP's that will be submitted shortly. Peter W and I Joachim L have been looking on earlier initiatives on using XMPP for sensor networks and specifically Internet Of Things. We both have a long history in working with large scale sensor networks such as smart metering and energy efficiency systems. We are very aware that a lot can be created via the use of MUC,adhoccommands, pubsub, x-forms etc from other XEP's and we will adress this. But what is very clear to us is that to create a solid infrastructure for interoperable sensor networks that will attract large companies, we need a set of XEP's that interact closely to cover the whole area from private proprietary networks up to the full internet of things open sensor networks. Therefor the XEP's are also namned together under XEP-0000-SN- exept for the EXI that is general. The base is the SensorData just published and we are now working on the Provisioning, Control will come soon. EXI will enable us to implement this into very constrained networks. This will XEP-0000-Exi Defines how to EXI can be used in XMPP to achieve efficient compression of data. Albeit not a sensor network specific XEP, this XEP should be considered in all sensor network implementations where memory and packet size is an issue. xep-0000-SN-BatteryPoweredSensors Defines how to handle the peculiars related to battery powered devices, and other devices intermittantly available on the network. xep-0000-SN-Concentrators Defines how to handle architectures containing concentrators or servers handling multiple sensors. xep-0000-SN-Control Defines how to control actuators and other devices in sensor networks. xep-0000-SN-Discovery Defines the peculiars of sensor discovery in sensor networks. Apart from discovering sensors by JID, it also defines how to discover sensors based on location, etc. xep-0000-SN-Events Defines how sensors send events, how event subscription, hysteresis levels, etc., are configured. xep-0000-SN-Interoperability Defines guidelines for how to achieve interoperability in sensor networks, publishing interoperability interfaces for different types of devices. xep-0000-SN-Multicast Defines how sensor data can be multicast in efficient ways. xep-0000-SN-Provisioning Defines how provisioning, the management of access privileges, etc., can be efficiently and easilly implemented. xep-0000-SN-PubSub Defines how efficient publication of sensor data can be made in sensor networks. xep-0000-SN-SensorData This specification. Provides the underlying architecture, basic operations and data structures for sensor data communication over XMPP networks. It includes a hardware abstraction model, removing any technical detail implemented in underlying technologies. This XEP is used by all other sensor network XEPs. About Us I am running a project iea.sust.se<http://iea.sust.se><http://iea.sust.se> in Sweden where we are looking on how to span sensor networks over the business model borders for companies. We have utility, energy service providers, domestic alarms, ventilation and heating systems working together to use XMPP as the infrastructure. looking at large initiatives in eu such as fi-ware.eu<http://fi-ware.eu><http://fi-ware.eu> we have identified the XMPP community as the best way to move forward. Peter W has integrated numerous systems that the clayster.com<http://clayster.com><http://clayster.com> system supports and is now the main author of the XEP's We are also active in the IEC/IEEE initiative where XMPP is to be used as infrastructure http://standards.ieee.org/email/2012_12_cfp_P1451.1.4_web.html Peter W had a presentation for the group http://www.slideshare.net/peterwaher/xsf The group is now looking also looking on these extensions Anyone willing to participate in this work are eagerly encouraged to contact us bilaterally or through the mail groups. -- regards Joachim Lindborg Teknisk Chef Sustainable Innovation AB Adress: Box 55998 102 16<tel:55998%20102%2016><tel:55998%20102%2016> Stockholm Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se<mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se><mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se<mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se>>, www.sust.se<http://www.sust.se><http://www.sust.se> Tel +46 706-442270<tel:%2B46%20706-442270><tel:%2B46%20706-442270> -- Hälsningar Joachim Lindborg Teknisk Chef Sustainable Innovation AB Adress: Box 55998 102 16<tel:55998%20102%2016><tel:55998%20102%2016> Stockholm Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se<mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se><mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se<mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se>>, www.sust.se<http://www.sust.se><http://www.sust.se> Tel +46 706-442270<tel:%2B46%20706-442270><tel:%2B46%20706-442270> This email and any information disclosed in connection herewith, whether written or oral, is the property of EnerNOC, Inc. and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Distributing or copying any information contained in this email to anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ IOT mailing list IOT(a)xmpp.org<mailto:IOT@xmpp.org> http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/iot -- Hälsningar Joachim Lindborg Teknisk Chef Sustainable Innovation AB Adress: Box 55998 102 16 Stockholm Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se<mailto:Joachim.lindborg@sust.se>, www.sust.se<http://www.sust.se> Tel +46 706-442270

11 years, 9 months

Fwd: [Members] Google Summer of Code 2013 - please submit potential ideas

by Joachim Lindborg

I have two ideas that I think could be good. Like to try them on the list before putting them on the wiki *Implementing EXI both server and clients*: Quite large work but perhaps to boring for the GSOC. http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2012-March/006712.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2013-March/027188.html *Next generation sensor networks and services*: Peter W and I is working on a new set of XEP's for creating interoperable flow of data for the Internet Of Things with the whole chain of deploying devices and connecting services The project would implement the proposed XEP's and create services utilizing open sensor networks for energy services, support elderly, internet of sports. earlier work http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2013-January/006921.html /Joachim ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Simon Tennant <simon(a)buddycloud.com> Date: 2013/3/11 Subject: Re: [Members] Google Summer of Code 2013 - please submit potential ideas To: XSF Members <members(a)xmpp.org> Following up on the call for GSOC interest, I'm inclined to believe that there are no projects interested in going through the XSF this year. if indeed you are, please submit today so that we can make a decision about pushing in an application or not. http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2013. S. On 6 March 2013 12:01, Simon Tennant <simon(a)buddycloud.com> wrote: > We're at the point of deciding whether there is interest in GOSC. While > there is definitely student interest, it's more a question of leadership and > mentoring time. > > I put together a template for gathering project ideas with an emphasis on > them demonstrating how they will do two things that I think are very > important if we do decide to go ahead with GSOC: > * be useful to XMPP > * demonstrate that the student is a communicative self-starter. > > If you have ideas - please update them on: > > http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2013. > Deadline: March 11. > > This will then help us decide if there is enough interest and that the > potential projects are worth sheparding. > > S. > > -- > Simon Tennant | buddycloud.com | +49 17 8545 0880 | office hours: > goo.gl/tQgxP -- Simon Tennant | buddycloud.com | +49 17 8545 0880 | office hours: goo.gl/tQgxP -- Hälsningar Joachim Lindborg Teknisk Chef Sustainable Innovation AB Adress: Box 55998 102 16 Stockholm Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se, www.sust.se Tel +46 706-442270

11 years, 9 months

Fwd: VINNOVA/Energimyndighet pengar för samarbete med Kina

by Joachim Lindborg

Skickar igen om det inte kom fram ---------- Vidarebefordrat meddelande ---------- Från: Joachim Lindborg <joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se> Datum: 6 mars 2013 19:37 Ämne: Re: VINNOVA/Energimyndighet pengar för samarbete med Kina Till: Thiemo Voigt <thiemo(a)sics.se> Ja kolla det är klart att det kan vara intressant om det går att realiseras utan för stort engagemang Skickat från mobil enhet 6 mar 2013 kl. 07:16 skrev Thiemo Voigt <thiemo(a)sics.se>: > Hej, > > jag har inga konkreta planer. Kanske en fortsättning på IEA? > Jag kan prata med Per i Uppsala. Dem har fått A-bidrag > just för ett sånt Kina projekt och på det viset har dem > kinesiska partnerna. Deras projekt gick ut på att samla in > miljödata via sensorer på bussarna som ändå kör > runt i staden. De hade Uppsala kommun med som är en > av kommunerna som Vattenfall har valt ut som > miljökommuner (eller liknande). > > Mvh. > Thiemo > > > > 2013/3/5 Joachim Lindborg <joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se>: >> Ja kanske det vi hur skulle det se ut då? ni söker vi är partner ? >> Vad skulle du vilja att vi gjorde? >> >> /jocke >> >> Den 4 mars 2013 13:50 skrev Thiemo Voigt <thiemo(a)sics.se>: >> >>> Hej Jochim, >>> >>> är SUST intresserad av pengar för samarbete med Kina? >>> >>> >>> http://www.vinnova.se/sv/Ansoka-och-rapportera/Utlysningar/Effekta/Internat… >>> >>> Mvh. >>> Thiemo >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Hälsningar >> >> Joachim Lindborg >> Teknisk Chef >> >> Sustainable Innovation AB >> Adress: Box 55998 102 16 Stockholm >> Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) >> Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se, www.sust.se >> Tel +46 706-442270 -- Hälsningar Joachim Lindborg Teknisk Chef Sustainable Innovation AB Adress: Box 55998 102 16 Stockholm Besöksadress: Storgatan 31 (Malmgården) Email: Joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se, www.sust.se Tel +46 706-442270

11 years, 9 months

IEEE XMPP Standardization effort for IoT

by Peter Waher

Hello Last Friday, IEEE had an introductory WG meeting in their effort to create a standard for IoT based on XMPP. As a member and representative of XSF I participated and expressed my desire to partake in this work. I also expressed the need for IEEE to work with XSF in order to make the IEEE standard an approved XEP. The WG meeting was a presentation made by IEEE with very limited time for discussion/questions. So I wrote them a letter (below) with comments and questions. The material they’ve published are for WG members only, but only included some schematics without technical details. I’ve requested they put more technical details about what has already been developed/standardized – let’s see if we can get access to that. I see a possible conflict between the interests of IEEE and XSF which needs to be addressed: While XSF is open and community based, XEP’s being available for free, IEEE is closed and standards are not available for free. So, one item to solve, is how to create a XEP (which would include all necessary technical details), without breaking any IEEE rules & regulations. Anybody has any experience working with IEEE & ISO? Were there any other XSF members at the IEEE meeting? Any suggestions, comments or disagreements with the below? I don’t think I can forward the presentations made in the WG to this list. But I believe William Miller is on the IoT mailaing list, and if he sees it fit, might forward them. Or, if not, If anybody wants to get access to the presentations, and were not in the WG meeting, you can try mailing him directly: mact-usa(a)att.net<mailto:mact-usa@att.net>. Sincerely, Peter Waher From: Peter Waher Sent: den 11 januari 2013 14:42 To: 'William Miller via IEEESA via IEEE-SA' Cc: mact-usa(a)att.net Subject: RE: [145114public] ISO-IEC-IEEE_M13010101.doc Dear William Miller. Thank you for a good presentation, and I applaud your effort. As a member of the XMPP Standards Foundation (XSF), it is in my interest to address the following topics: · Sensor networks & IoT over XMPP · Extending the semantic web over XMPP · Distributed social networks using XMPP From the presentations today, I would like to point out the following as important aspects that need to be addressed to have a successful standard for (W)SN over XMPP: · XMPP is a message transport protocol, and not a request/response protocol, as you pointed out. This implies: o Request/response mechanisms, important in many metering applications, have to be implemented specifically and security, failability, etc., to be addressed. o It allows for asynchronous event notification, as you mentioned. o XMPP also allow for multi-cast messages to receptors that are not registered as friends. In XMPP this is called Multi-user-chat (MUC). This might be a very efficient means of mass-distribution of important information (like setting of sensors clocks), but its use and security issues needs to be regulated. · Different sensor architectures need to be addressed by the WG: o Client<->Client (peer-to-peer) is obviously the ultimate goal, i.e. sensors implementing XMPP directly, communicating over IP(6). o Client<->Gateways<->Client, using proprietary protocols, as you’ve mentioned. o Client<->Concentrator<->Server, where the server communicates XMPP with concentrators, but concentrators communicate in some (proprietary) fashion with its devices. o Client->XMPP Server<->Client/Server, Clients (on a limited battery) can publish information (publish/subscribe in XMPP) to XMPP Servers while awake, and peers can read this information even when sensors are asleep. Security considerations and guidelines need to be developed. · Identity. You’ve mentioned that a sensor needs to be identified using a GUID. XMPP has a method of identifying (uniquely) clients already (called a JID, Jabber ID), similar to mail clients: UserID@Domain/Unit. The operator of the XMPP server defines the domain, and UserIDs are unique in the namespace of the XMPP server. Unit allows different clients (i.e. applications/sensors, etc) behind an address. The Unit is based on the current session. The main obstacle here is to map GUIDs to the JID’s without inserting mapping conflicts. XMPP servers allow for automatic account creation, which would allow sensors to automatically register itself. It could create a JID similar to GUID@domain. However, automatic account creation opens up a series of security issues. Creating accounts manually (or semi-automatically) might be possible, but allows for erroneous maps, and a lot of problems on the distribution side of the (W)SN. · Since we talk about including WSN with possible little RAM, I would like to note that there’s an effort by IETF and W3C called EXI (Efficient XML Interchange). While compression is not particularly important in PC<->PC communications, for small embedded devices, it might be important. o W3C WG & recommendation: http://www.w3.org/XML/EXI/ o For a standard aiming at (all) WSN, it would be prudent to include EXI as an option. o No XMPP Server (that I am aware of, might be wrong) supports EXI today. Support needs to be drawn from developers of XMPP Servers, if this is to be an architectural feature of the new IEEE standard. o There are tools that automatically create efficient C/C++ code for compression/decompression of XML based on valid & known XML Schemas. · To be able to create an approved XEP (XMPP Extension), the XSF needs to be involved. This means (in short words): o The XEP needs to be documented and mailed (in a specific format) to the XSF for voting. o Any objections needs to be worked on, or responded to. o When approved, it will become experimental. o After sufficient implementation experience exists, it may become rejected or approved. o The current working group needs to understand, that it cannot simply post a proposal, and being IEEE it will automatically be accepted. It has to be subject to vote and possibly change, as it might not be optimal or sufficient for XMPP. (Not being optimal or sufficient opens up for new XEPs to be created, which should be avoided If possible.) o More information: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html I’m interested to participate in work relating to XSF and XEP, according to the descriptions in the above item. I’m also interested to participate in all proposed groups SG1, SG2 & SG3,to make sure they take into account above items. Any contact details can be found below Sincerely, Peter Waher Peter Waher, Gerente General [cid:image001.png@01CDF009.DB16D150] Clayster Chile Ltda Calle Blanco 1623, oficina 1402 Valparaíso, Chile Teléfono: +56-32-2122533, +56-9-71993640 Skype: peter.waher Correo electrónico: peter.waher(a)clayster.com<mailto:peter.waher@clayster.com> Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClaysterLabs, https://twitter.com/PeterWaher LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/pub/peter-waher/1a/71b/a29 La información contenida en esta transmisión es confidencial y propietaria y no puede ser utilizada por personas distintas a su(s) destinatario(s). La utilización no autorizada de la información contenida en este correo por cualquier forma puede ser sancionada criminalmente de conformidad con la Ley Chilena e infringir normas sobre propiedad intelectual, propiedad industrial o secretos comerciales. Si ha recibido esta transmisión por error, por favor destrúyala y notifique al remitente telefónicamente, con cobro revertido o vía e-mail. Atendido que no existe certidumbre que el presente mensaje no será modificado como resultado de su transmisión por correo electrónico CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada, no será responsable si el contenido del mismo ha sido modificado. Visite nuestra página WEB www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>. The information contained in this transmission is confidential and proprietary and it cannot be used by any person other than its addressee(s). Unauthorized use of the information contained in this transmission in any form may be punished under Chilean Law and be considered a copyright, industrial property or trade secrets infringement. If received in error, please destroy it and notify the sender by calling collect or e-mail. As there can be no certainty that this message will not be modified as a result of its transmission via e-mail, CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada shall not be responsible if the content of the same has been modified. Visit www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>. From: Peter Waher Sent: den 2 januari 2013 22:17 To: 'William Miller via IEEESA via IEEE-SA' Cc: mact-usa(a)att.net<mailto:mact-usa@att.net> Subject: RE: [145114public] ISO-IEC-IEEE_M13010101.doc Dear William Miller. Find my responses to your questions in the attached document. Sincerely, Peter Waher From: William Miller via IEEESA via IEEE-SA [mailto:reply.21707498.305616.35809258626BD0CE3E8DCF4408D92EF3C97104646@in.centraldesktop.com] Sent: den 1 januari 2013 22:55 To: Peter Waher Subject: [145114public] ISO-IEC-IEEE_M13010101.doc ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= New File Added: [http://app.centraldesktop.com/i/ui2.0/icon_sprites/file_word.png] ISO-IEC-IEEE_M13010101.doc<http://ieee-sa.centraldesktop.com/p/aQAAAAABSzrq> (142 KB) Download File<https://ieee-sa.centraldesktop.com/home/viewfile?guid=35809258626BD0CE3E8DC…> ________________________________ Uploaded By: William Miller<https://ieee-sa.centraldesktop.com/home/user?guid=29702309486EB5E98F4B31103…> Comment: To All Members, Please review the attached file and return your response prior to January 11, 2013. Thanks for your participation. 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11 years, 10 months

Not sure who is lurking where - this was interesting

by bear

An interesting post over on Google+ https://plus.google.com/u/0/101587995466043751606/posts/QeKxaNgSKbM -- Bear bear(a)xmpp.org (email) bear42(a)gmail.com (xmpp, email) bear(a)code-bear.com (xmpp, email) http://code-bear.com/bearlog (weblog) PGP Fingerprint = 9996 719F 973D B11B E111 D770 9331 E822 40B3 CD29

11 years, 10 months

Sensor-over-XMPP

by Sven-Erik Tiberg

Hi Antony Used some time to read and watch "your tutorial for getting up and running with our tools: http://sensor.andrew.cmu.edu:9000/raw-attachment/wiki/quick-start/sensor-an…" Interesting. Noticed that you are using strophe.im libs and I guess ejabberd as jabber server? After watching your video I called some colleagues running research projects in e-maintance including remote surveillance and diagnostic in machines. Will read your report "Sensor Andrew: Large-Scale Campus-Wide Sensing and Actuation" this evening and if possible can I come back with some questions? Yours Sincerely Sven-Erik Tiberg Lulea Univ of Technology. Sweden From: standards-bounces(a)xmpp.org [mailto:standards-bounces@xmpp.org] On Behalf Of Peter Waher Sent: den 17 december 2012 20:22 To: XMPP Standards; mat henshall Cc: gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu; iot(a)xmpp.org; Joachim Lindborg (joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se); marioberges(a)cmu.edu Subject: Re: [Standards] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP Hello Anthony. Great to hear from you. I'm sorry I didn't know of your XEP until now. Our implementations has been one of transport mainly, only the advantages of XMPP transport, including client authentication, and network topology independence. We've left most of meter/sensor communication to the protocol transported on-top (being it M-bus, Modbus, etc.), with payload being identified using a content type attribute. Our desire is to create a better abstract interface which is protocol independent, which would allow for the same things. (And we have such an abstraction already defined for other purposes, but it is not used in our xmpp implementation, so we have some ideas on what we would need in a new XEP.) However, we don't see it as necessarily advantageous to start specifying interfaces for different kinds of devices in the XEP. We believe this is a bad abstraction. (Something outside of the interfaces defined, would not be valid until one updates the XEP.) However, an interoperability section online would probably be required, for people wanting to define specific interfaces for certain use cases. We don't either see a difference between sensors and a actuators in how devices are handled, they are examples of two extremes of the same abstraction: To us most devices consists of a collection of both readable values (i.e. "sensor" values, but also other kind of non-sensor values) and writable values (configurable values, output values, etc.). A PLC is an example where you cannot simply say it's a sensor (it may have sensing capacities and most probably will) or an actuator (it most probably has output values, but might not use them). This we want to include in a XEP (and if previous XEPs could/should/shouldn't be used and why): * Abstract interface description, describing available sensor resources (readable/writable values, data types, meta information, etc.) * Request/response mechanism for readout. * Request/response mechanism for output. * Spontaneous reporting of momentary values based on subscription rules, hysteresis levels, and/or other logic. * Node topology information (if sensor part of larger whole, like a concentrator, for instance). * Abstract metering data description, including: o Timestamps o Description o Units (if numerical) o Precision (if numerical) o Statuses (sequence of flags: error, QoS, tampering, etc.) o Data types (numerical, Boolean, string, date & time, enum, time span) o Value Types (momentary values, historical values, status values, informative values, etc.) o Localization information We also want to include several other things in a separate xep (like control logic), based on what's possible if XMPP is connected to a semantic web environment. Would anybody be interested in working on such a XEP with us? Sincerely, Peter Waher From: Anthony Rowe [mailto:agr@ece.cmu.edu]<mailto:[mailto:agr@ece.cmu.edu]> Sent: den 17 december 2012 13:45 To: mat henshall Cc: gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu<mailto:gauravbhatia@cmu.edu>; iot(a)xmpp.org<mailto:iot@xmpp.org>; Joachim Lindborg (joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se<mailto:joachim.lindborg@sust.se>); XMPP Standards; marioberges(a)cmu.edu<mailto:marioberges@cmu.edu> Subject: Re: [Standards] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP Hi all, Great to see so much interested in XMPP for IoT applications. The XEP was basically a summarization of how we had been using XMPP and pubsub in our sensor andrew project. We were also lucky enough to get a fair amount of input form Charles at Google with some interesting use-cases and a few idea on reducing message traffic. The main hangup was that the XMPP council didn't like the idea of linking sensors and actuators and there was some concern if pubsub was generally a good fit for actuation. We basically decided that as researchers in a University environment we would just keep doing what we were doing and revisit the XEP in the future if there was more interest. One easy fix would have been for us to split the XEP into a sensor and actuator document. I would be very interested to hear about how you all have been structuring your XMPP communication. Is it similar to what we proposed? Is anyone using pubsub? We are still actively using our proposed model with a few minor changes to the XEP. Our most recent version of the XEP document can be found here: http://sensor.andrew.cmu.edu/xep/sox-xep.html We also have a simple tutorial for getting up and running with our tools: http://sensor.andrew.cmu.edu:9000/raw-attachment/wiki/quick-start/sensor-an… As for implementations, we have a C, java and python version of our library (called SOX) that we have continued to develop. We have been focusing our recent efforts on the slightly higher-level problems associated with data storage, meta information management and application hosting. These all for the most part exist above the XEP which is just our simple message passing format. I wouldn't be opposed to revamping our XEP with other's inputs and trying to resubmit. We have been getting interest from our corporate sponsors to take another shot at the XEP. -Anthony On Dec 17, 2012, at 11:16 AM, mat henshall <mat(a)squareconnect.com<mailto:mat@squareconnect.com>> wrote: We are using XMPP for both sensor reporting and control for building and home automation applications. We have implemented a very rich set of stanza's that cover almost all common types of devices and it is designed to work on very low resource embedded devices. This implementation is currently in closed beta although there are some very large brands who have started to develop applications and hardware using our protocol and technology. Our intention is to make the protocol public once we had a full working public available implementation. When we became aware of the proposed XEP extension mentioned here we were already a long way down the road with our own, and as there is so much more to making a complete system than is exposed in this XEP, we felt we needed a working implementation to compare and contrast and make meaningful contributions based on experience... We would be excited to work with others on creating a standard... the problem as always is time to commit to this exercise. That being said, we do have executing code and multiple devices talking to each otehr across continents... so I think we are at the stage where we could add to any serious attempt for standardization. Mat On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig(a)gmx.net<mailto:hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>> wrote: Hi all, I was actually wondering myself about the status of XMPP & SIP usage for sensors. I dropped Peter a mail a month ago to hear more about the deployment situation. It seems that if there are implementations then they are using HTTP. Ciao Hannes On Dec 17, 2012, at 5:47 PM, Matthew Wild wrote: > On 17 December 2012 12:35, Peter Waher <Peter.Waher(a)clayster.com<mailto:Peter.Waher@clayster.com>> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm writing to you to, to ask about the status of the following document: >> >> http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html >> > >> I'm interested in developing extensions for allowing sensor data communication and IoT, among other things. We have multiple applications using XMPP and sensors. Before proposing an extension by ourselves, I've been waiting to find colleagues working in the same area, so we could propose an extension together, this increasing the probability for it to become useful. >> >> What is the status of the above mentioned document? Is it set in stone, or is it possible to work on it, redefine parts of it, etc., in order for it to become more general and suitable also to our needs? Are you able to invite other authors to partake in the development of this proposed extension? > > It was rejected by the council at its meeting 2011-04-27: > http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/council/2011-May/003164.html > > Nathan posted his reasoning here: > http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-May/024545.html - and > the discussion continued here: > http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-May/024547.html > > No new version was submitted as far as I know, and I know of no public > implementations of the protocol (that's not to say there aren't any of > course...). > > Regards, > Matthew -- Mat Henshall Founder and CEO, Square Connect, Inc. San Jose, CA www.squareconnect.com<http://www.squareconnect.com/> cell: 650.814.7585

12 years

Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP

by Peter Waher

Hello. I'm writing to you to, to ask about the status of the following document: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html How is this proposed extension used today, and in what implementations? I'm interested in developing extensions for allowing sensor data communication and IoT, among other things. We have multiple applications using XMPP and sensors. Before proposing an extension by ourselves, I've been waiting to find colleagues working in the same area, so we could propose an extension together, this increasing the probability for it to become useful. What is the status of the above mentioned document? Is it set in stone, or is it possible to work on it, redefine parts of it, etc., in order for it to become more general and suitable also to our needs? Are you able to invite other authors to partake in the development of this proposed extension? Sincerely, Peter Waher Peter Waher, Gerente General [cid:image001.png@01CDDC39.8577CD00] Clayster Chile Ltda Calle Blanco 1623, oficina 1402 Valparaíso, Chile Teléfono: +56-32-2122533, +56-9-71993640 Skype: peter.waher Correo electrónico: peter.waher(a)clayster.com<mailto:peter.waher@clayster.com> Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClaysterLabs, https://twitter.com/PeterWaher LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/pub/peter-waher/1a/71b/a29 La información contenida en esta transmisión es confidencial y propietaria y no puede ser utilizada por personas distintas a su(s) destinatario(s). La utilización no autorizada de la información contenida en este correo por cualquier forma puede ser sancionada criminalmente de conformidad con la Ley Chilena e infringir normas sobre propiedad intelectual, propiedad industrial o secretos comerciales. Si ha recibido esta transmisión por error, por favor destrúyala y notifique al remitente telefónicamente, con cobro revertido o vía e-mail. Atendido que no existe certidumbre que el presente mensaje no será modificado como resultado de su transmisión por correo electrónico CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada, no será responsable si el contenido del mismo ha sido modificado. Visite nuestra página WEB www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>. The information contained in this transmission is confidential and proprietary and it cannot be used by any person other than its addressee(s). Unauthorized use of the information contained in this transmission in any form may be punished under Chilean Law and be considered a copyright, industrial property or trade secrets infringement. If received in error, please destroy it and notify the sender by calling collect or e-mail. As there can be no certainty that this message will not be modified as a result of its transmission via e-mail, CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada shall not be responsible if the content of the same has been modified. Visit www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>.

12 years

Re: [IOT] IOT Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4

by William Miller

Mat and Peter, The announcement just went out for the meeting on January 11, 2013. Please drop me a message with IEEE P21451-1-4 in subject line. Regards, W.J.MILLER, PRESIDENT, MaCT, (301) 500-9277 -----Original Message----- From: iot-bounces(a)xmpp.org [mailto:iot-bounces@xmpp.org] On Behalf Of iot-request(a)xmpp.org Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:12 AM To: iot(a)xmpp.org Subject: IOT Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4 Send IOT mailing list submissions to iot(a)xmpp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/iot or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to iot-request(a)xmpp.org You can reach the person managing the list at iot-owner(a)xmpp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of IOT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: XEP-xxxx and ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 (12-17-12) (Peter Waher) 2. Call for Participation - IEEE P1451.1.4(tm) Working Group (William Miller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:25:33 +0000 From: Peter Waher <Peter.Waher(a)clayster.com> To: XMPP in the Internet of Things <iot(a)xmpp.org> Subject: Re: [IOT] XEP-xxxx and ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 (12-17-12) Message-ID: <1693EFE1FD641C42A0D542FCBC732DE698BC9589(a)EX3.YODA.UTOPIA.LOCAL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello W.J. Miller. You've mentioned that you do work on this in these communities, and also promised to invite us in a meeting where you would publish technical documentation on how you think this should be done. Any more information on when this meeting is to take place. I e-mailed you my interest, but have not received an invitation yet. Sincerely, Peter Waher -----Original Message----- From: William Miller [mailto:mact-usa@att.net] Sent: den 17 december 2012 13:35 To: iot(a)xmpp.org Subject: [IOT] XEP-xxxx and ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 (12-17-12) Mat and Peter, There is a join standardization effort in ISO/IEC/iEEE 21451-1-4 and we will incorporate aspects of XEP-XXXX Sensors over XMPP and would well input from others in the community. There is a reference model that we are using that is powered by XMPP and also providesXMP linkage for mobility including Smart Phones (i.e. Andorid, Apple, Microsfoot, Blackberry). This work is also in process within ISO JTC1 SC1 Automatic Identification, SNIT-M2M IoT (Internet of Things), and TC 122. This work will combine asset identification, location tracking, and sensor monitoring for a wide range of applciations to offer a common protoocl using XMPP. If there are others who are interested please cotnact me if you would be intrested in particiapting in this international effort. Regards, W.J.MILLER, PRESIDENT, MaCT, 01 301 500-9277 ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 WG, Chairman -----Original Message----- From: iot-bounces(a)xmpp.org [mailto:iot-bounces@xmpp.org] On Behalf Of iot-request(a)xmpp.org Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 1:40 PM To: iot(a)xmpp.org Subject: IOT Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2 Send IOT mailing list submissions to iot(a)xmpp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/iot or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to iot-request(a)xmpp.org You can reach the person managing the list at iot-owner(a)xmpp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of IOT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP (Peter Waher) 2. Re: [Standards] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP (mat henshall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:35:36 +0000 From: Peter Waher <Peter.Waher(a)clayster.com> To: "gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu" <gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu>, "marioberges(a)cmu.edu" <marioberges(a)cmu.edu>, "agr(a)ece.cmu.edu" <agr(a)ece.cmu.edu>, "css(a)google.com" <css(a)google.com> Cc: "iot(a)xmpp.org" <iot(a)xmpp.org>, "Joachim Lindborg \(joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se\)" <joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se>, "standards(a)xmpp.org" <standards(a)xmpp.org> Subject: [IOT] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP Message-ID: <1693EFE1FD641C42A0D542FCBC732DE698BC9287(a)EX3.YODA.UTOPIA.LOCAL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello. I'm writing to you to, to ask about the status of the following document: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html How is this proposed extension used today, and in what implementations? I'm interested in developing extensions for allowing sensor data communication and IoT, among other things. We have multiple applications using XMPP and sensors. Before proposing an extension by ourselves, I've been waiting to find colleagues working in the same area, so we could propose an extension together, this increasing the probability for it to become useful. What is the status of the above mentioned document? Is it set in stone, or is it possible to work on it, redefine parts of it, etc., in order for it to become more general and suitable also to our needs? Are you able to invite other authors to partake in the development of this proposed extension? Sincerely, Peter Waher Peter Waher, Gerente General [cid:image001.png@01CDDC39.8577CD00] Clayster Chile Ltda Calle Blanco 1623, oficina 1402 Valpara?so, Chile Tel?fono: +56-32-2122533, +56-9-71993640 Skype: peter.waher Correo electr?nico: peter.waher(a)clayster.com<mailto:peter.waher@clayster.com> Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClaysterLabs, https://twitter.com/PeterWaher LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/pub/peter-waher/1a/71b/a29 La informaci?n contenida en esta transmisi?n es confidencial y propietaria y no puede ser utilizada por personas distintas a su(s) destinatario(s). La utilizaci?n no autorizada de la informaci?n contenida en este correo por cualquier forma puede ser sancionada criminalmente de conformidad con la Ley Chilena e infringir normas sobre propiedad intelectual, propiedad industrial o secretos comerciales. Si ha recibido esta transmisi?n por error, por favor destr?yala y notifique al remitente telef?nicamente, con cobro revertido o v?a e-mail. Atendido que no existe certidumbre que el presente mensaje no ser? modificado como resultado de su transmisi?n por correo electr?nico CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada, no ser? responsable si el contenido del mismo ha sido modificado. Visite nuestra p?gina WEB www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>. The information contained in this transmission is confidential and proprietary and it cannot be used by any person other than its addressee(s). Unauthorized use of the information contained in this transmission in any form may be punished under Chilean Law and be considered a copyright, industrial property or trade secrets infringement. If received in error, please destroy it and notify the sender by calling collect or e-mail. As there can be no certainty that this message will not be modified as a result of its transmission via e-mail, CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada shall not be responsible if the content of the same has been modified. Visit www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>.

12 years

Call for Participation - IEEE P1451.1.4(tm) Working Group

by William Miller

To IoT members, You are invited to participate in ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 to estalbish XMPP as a common international protocol for transport for sensors, actuators, and networkd devices. Please forward your contact information now to be included in the dissemination for the meeting next month. This is a jont effort between ISO/IEC/IEEE and oepn to any participant. You will be contacted in the next few weeks with the link to attend on Janauary 11, 2013. Regards, W.J.MILLER, PRESIDENT, MaCT, (301) 500-9277 <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,dg5g,6v6k,7g8u,1…> click here if you have trouble viewing this email <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,br4z,wvm,7g8u,12…> IEEE <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,7gev,ddhj,7g8u,1…> IEEE Standards Association IEEE P1451.1.4™ Working Group Call for Participation The IEEE P1451.1.4™ Working Group (WG) is announcing a Call for Participation to develop ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 Standard for a Smart Transducer Interface for Sensors, Actuators, and Devices - eXtensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) for Networked Device Communication. This standards development project is sponsored by the Instrumentation and Measurement Society (IMS)/TC-9. It is also jointly developed with ISO/IEC/JTC1/ SC31/WG6. This standard defines a method for transporting IEEE 1451™ messages over a network using eXtensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) to establish session initiation, secure communication, and characteristic identification between networked client and server devices using device Meta identification information based on the IEEE 1451 Transducer Electronic Data Sheets (TEDS). The purpose of ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 is to provide session initiation and protocol transport for sensors, actuators, and devices. The standard addresses issues of security, scalability, and interoperability, and can provide significant cost savings and reduce complexity, leveraging current instrumentation and devices used in industry. The IEEE P1451.1.4 WG is seeking participants from the sensor/network manufacturers, system integrators, and smart sensor/actuators system users including asset management, cargo container tracking, geospatial/military, remote health sensing and monitoring, SCADA/process control, smart grid, smart phone/devices, supply chain, and transportation systems, and other potential applications. To join the Working Group and be included in the next WG meeting participation list, please submit your name and contact information by 23 December 2012 to: William Miller, WG Chair: <mailto:mact-usa@att.net> mact-usa(a)att.net If you have any questions related to the IEEE P1451.1.4 WG, please contact: William Miller, WG Chair: <mailto:mact-usa@att.net> mact-usa(a)att.net Kang Lee, WG Co-Chair: <mailto:kang.lee@ieee.org> kang.lee(a)ieee.org WG meeting notice will be sent out on: 28 December 2012 WG meeting date, via electronic conferencing, will be held: 11 January 2013 <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,fd15,i8uk,7g8u,1…> IEEE Standards Association 445 Hoes Lane Piscataway, NJ 08854 shadow <http://standards.ieee.org/email/images/shadow_white_335.png> <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,6zyh,h7fs,7g8u,1…> Facebook <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,d62d,m46m,7g8u,1…> Twitter <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,k4te,2b0g,7g8u,1…> LinkedIn <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,f5rd,elp,7g8u,12…> YouTube <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,bh0c,1bbj,7g8u,1…> WordPress shadow <http://standards.ieee.org/email/images/shadow_white_335.png> Open Stand <http://standards.ieee.org/email/images/128x128-orange.png> shadow <http://standards.ieee.org/email/images/shadow_white_335.png> <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,1iph,1zz1,7g8u,1…> STAND WITH US!! learn more about OpenStand <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,571l,hz5v,7g8u,1…> Copyright 2012 IEEE-SA | <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,de2,8sck,7g8u,12…> IEEE-SA Home | <http://www.uptilt.com/c.html?ufl=5&rtr=on&s=8nv,1pbik,3cnq,m9ew,cgf6,7g8u,1…> Privacy & Security To unsubscribe, send email with Subject: "Unsubscribe" to: <mailto:unsubscribe-reply-155234@ieeestandards.org> unsubscribe-reply-156374(a)ieeestandards.org <http://www.uptilt.com/images/mlopen_post.html?rtr=on&siteid=11227&mid=28609…>

12 years

XEP-xxxx and ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 (12-17-12)

by William Miller

Mat and Peter, There is a join standardization effort in ISO/IEC/iEEE 21451-1-4 and we will incorporate aspects of XEP-XXXX Sensors over XMPP and would well input from others in the community. There is a reference model that we are using that is powered by XMPP and also providesXMP linkage for mobility including Smart Phones (i.e. Andorid, Apple, Microsfoot, Blackberry). This work is also in process within ISO JTC1 SC1 Automatic Identification, SNIT-M2M IoT (Internet of Things), and TC 122. This work will combine asset identification, location tracking, and sensor monitoring for a wide range of applciations to offer a common protoocl using XMPP. If there are others who are interested please cotnact me if you would be intrested in particiapting in this international effort. Regards, W.J.MILLER, PRESIDENT, MaCT, 01 301 500-9277 ISO/IEC/IEEE 21451-1-4 WG, Chairman -----Original Message----- From: iot-bounces(a)xmpp.org [mailto:iot-bounces@xmpp.org] On Behalf Of iot-request(a)xmpp.org Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 1:40 PM To: iot(a)xmpp.org Subject: IOT Digest, Vol 7, Issue 2 Send IOT mailing list submissions to iot(a)xmpp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/iot or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to iot-request(a)xmpp.org You can reach the person managing the list at iot-owner(a)xmpp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of IOT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP (Peter Waher) 2. Re: [Standards] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP (mat henshall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:35:36 +0000 From: Peter Waher <Peter.Waher(a)clayster.com> To: "gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu" <gauravbhatia(a)cmu.edu>, "marioberges(a)cmu.edu" <marioberges(a)cmu.edu>, "agr(a)ece.cmu.edu" <agr(a)ece.cmu.edu>, "css(a)google.com" <css(a)google.com> Cc: "iot(a)xmpp.org" <iot(a)xmpp.org>, "Joachim Lindborg \(joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se\)" <joachim.lindborg(a)sust.se>, "standards(a)xmpp.org" <standards(a)xmpp.org> Subject: [IOT] Status of XEP-xxxx: Sensor-over-XMPP Message-ID: <1693EFE1FD641C42A0D542FCBC732DE698BC9287(a)EX3.YODA.UTOPIA.LOCAL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello. I'm writing to you to, to ask about the status of the following document: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html How is this proposed extension used today, and in what implementations? I'm interested in developing extensions for allowing sensor data communication and IoT, among other things. We have multiple applications using XMPP and sensors. Before proposing an extension by ourselves, I've been waiting to find colleagues working in the same area, so we could propose an extension together, this increasing the probability for it to become useful. What is the status of the above mentioned document? Is it set in stone, or is it possible to work on it, redefine parts of it, etc., in order for it to become more general and suitable also to our needs? Are you able to invite other authors to partake in the development of this proposed extension? Sincerely, Peter Waher Peter Waher, Gerente General [cid:image001.png@01CDDC39.8577CD00] Clayster Chile Ltda Calle Blanco 1623, oficina 1402 Valpara?so, Chile Tel?fono: +56-32-2122533, +56-9-71993640 Skype: peter.waher Correo electr?nico: peter.waher(a)clayster.com<mailto:peter.waher@clayster.com> Twitter: https://twitter.com/ClaysterLabs, https://twitter.com/PeterWaher LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/pub/peter-waher/1a/71b/a29 La informaci?n contenida en esta transmisi?n es confidencial y propietaria y no puede ser utilizada por personas distintas a su(s) destinatario(s). La utilizaci?n no autorizada de la informaci?n contenida en este correo por cualquier forma puede ser sancionada criminalmente de conformidad con la Ley Chilena e infringir normas sobre propiedad intelectual, propiedad industrial o secretos comerciales. Si ha recibido esta transmisi?n por error, por favor destr?yala y notifique al remitente telef?nicamente, con cobro revertido o v?a e-mail. Atendido que no existe certidumbre que el presente mensaje no ser? modificado como resultado de su transmisi?n por correo electr?nico CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada, no ser? responsable si el contenido del mismo ha sido modificado. Visite nuestra p?gina WEB www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>. The information contained in this transmission is confidential and proprietary and it cannot be used by any person other than its addressee(s). Unauthorized use of the information contained in this transmission in any form may be punished under Chilean Law and be considered a copyright, industrial property or trade secrets infringement. If received in error, please destroy it and notify the sender by calling collect or e-mail. As there can be no certainty that this message will not be modified as a result of its transmission via e-mail, CLAYSTER Laboratorios Chile Limitada shall not be responsible if the content of the same has been modified. Visit www.clayster.com<http://www.clayster.com/>.

12 years

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